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My granddaughter at 7 months has such a beautiful smile and laughter, that was not taught.
Makes you wonder - why anyone would believe that the human heart is deceitfully wicked?
Weel, our adult ancestors prior to Christ were fairly savage and deceitful, Jer. In fact, the innocence and beauty of very young children may be why Jesus specifically told them to be more like children.
Actually, you are the one fighting to maintain your false doctrine(s).
Show me Bible that refutes the doctrines that I preach.
For you have made a claim...that I have or teach false doctrines.
The burden of proof is therefore on you to support your claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You are the one unequivocally rejecting the God unambiguously revealed by Jesus on the Cross in favor of our ancestors' wrathful, vengeful War God, JBF. I accept the salvation of Jesus but I recognize it as the undeniable expression of God's Holy Spirit of agape love perfectly displayed by Jesus. I do NOT see it as some barbaric satisfaction of the wrath of God for "whatever." I believe that your interpretation of HOW Jesus saved us is the result of primitive ignorance unworthy of our loving Father God, Abba, as revealed by His Son Jesus.
You believe wrongly; and would attempt to change God to fit your pattern of what you believe that He ought to be...thus you have crafted for yourself an idol out of your own imagination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou
"Penal Substitution" is nonsense!
Believing in that robs Christ of the Glory of His atoning sacrifice and casts God as a cruel tyrant.
Scripture clearly tells us that God is Love, and that He desires mercy, not sacrifice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
I agree
In the past and still there is the tendency to err too much left and right, when there is a need to look for the balance, that is the point of the priestly duty and of the “mediation” and the “sacrifice”
Penal substitution is theology gone wrong erring overly toward the Law and not being balanced
Apparently there are a few here who do not believe in what Jesus did for them on the Cross in order to bring them forgiveness.
That there is a larger number of people who believe this way in no way precludes that the doctrine of Penal Substitution is false.
It is in fact the gospel of Jesus Christ through which a man can alone be saved.
Therefore, those who reject this doctrine, do so to their own eternal hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I can't imagine who or what would catfish me into believing Jesus Christ fully represents God and His Holy Spirit of agape love saved us from permanent separation from God by sending the Comforter to abide with us in our consciousness, if NOT the Comforter. Neither can I imagine why such a deception would occur. Who does it serve if Not Jesus and God?
The reference to the human heart being untrustworthy was PRIOR to Jesus Christ and the New Covenant where God has "written His truth in our hearts" and sent the Comforter in Jesus's name to guide us to it. I am no Jesus and make no claim to be but I try to love as He does every day and repent when I fail because I have faith that He is the exemplar of who God really IS, certainly not your wrathful and vengeful Israelit War God.
Because your doctrine rejects the only means of forgiveness, it does not serve Jesus or God; because in believing in what you believe, the seducing spirit that showed you your "revelation" is teaching you another pseudo-Christian cult to attempt to bring more confusion to the mess.
What you believe in can pass off as Christian to the untrained eye but in all reality is anything but Christian.
For it denies the most very basic tenet of the Christian faith...the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
I can't imagine who or what would catfish me into believing Jesus Christ fully represents God and His Holy Spirit of agape love saved us from permanent separation from God by sending the Comforter to abide with us in our consciousness, if NOT the Comforter. Neither can I imagine why such a deception would occur. Who does it serve if Not Jesus and God?
Just like Mantei Teo couldn't fathom his girlfriend not actually being real. And countless other men and women who are only too happy to believe in a person based on the picture they see confirming what they already know.
Quote:
The reference to the human heart being untrustworthy was PRIOR to Jesus Christ and the New Covenant where God has "written His truth in our hearts" and sent the Comforter in Jesus's name to guide us to it. I am no Jesus and make no claim to be but I try to love as He does every day and repent when I fail because I have faith that He is the exemplar of who God really IS, certainly not your wrathful and vengeful Israelit War God.
Yes. Prior to knowing Jesus, it's amazing how people will fall for whatever crazy story stokes the ego.
Instead of seeking to believe in a god of your own understanding, believe in the one that Christianity has been preaching for 2000 years.
You believe wrongly; and would attempt to change God to fit your pattern of what you believe that He ought to be...thus you have crafted for yourself an idol out of your own imagination.
This lie is so frequent and completely unjustified it qualifies as trolling. How often do you have to be told it is NOT of my OWN imagination but DIRECTLY from your BIBLE!!! You people are so tedious and irritating that you cannot possibly know Jesus or have experienced His Holy Spirit of agape love.
Quote:
Apparently, there are a few here who do not believe in what Jesus did for them on the Cross in order to bring them forgiveness.
What Jesus did was to foster forgiveness IN US for the remission of our "sin disease." It had nothing to do with God's absolute and infinite forgiveness and never could.
Quote:
That there is a larger number of people who believe this way in no way precludes that the doctrine of Penal Substitution is false.
It is a fallible doctrine of human origin based on our imperfect human concept of justice by punishment. It has nothing to do with God's perfect justice. God's justice balances the scales for ALL involved, perpetrators and victims alike, something we humans can never do.
Quote:
It is in fact the Gospel of Jesus Christ through which a man can alone be saved.
Therefore, those who reject this doctrine, do so to their own eternal hurt.
The Gospel that we are saved by Jesus alone is undeniably TRUE because He achieved as a HUMAN what none of us could. But your corrupt human version of appeasement of God's wrath is wrong. God as presented by Jesus Christ on the Cross has NO wrath or vengeance in Him. There definitely ARE negative spiritual consequences for what we BECOME but they are NOT punishments imposed by God's wrath or vengeance and they are NOT eternal. God wants us to AVOID them.
Quote:
Because your doctrine rejects the only means of forgiveness, it does not serve Jesus or God; because in believing in what you believe, the seducing spirit that showed you your "revelation" is teaching you another pseudo-Christian cult to attempt to bring more confusion to the mess.
Again you cannot seem to resist the lies and accusations about my views! Please stop it. I accurately describe your views, please have the courtesy to do the same for mine. I am attempting to clear up the corruption and confusion wrought by our ancestors' primitive ignorance about God, NOT create more confusion.
The overall Good News Gospel message is the SAME. Christ fully represents God, He came in HUMAN form to bring God's Holy Spirit of agape love to His HUMAN consciousness for the remission of our "sin disease," He endured horrendous scourging and crucifixion with His perfect agape love (Grace) to appease the wrath and vengeance of our brutal savage ancestors, and He abides with us since His death as the Comforter to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our HEARTS" (NOT the words "written in ink" in the Bible).
That is why we must TEST the spirit of what is written there and properly divide the scriptures and interpret them with God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed by Jesus Christ on the Cross, NOT the wrathful and vengeful God believed in by our primitive ancestors.
Psa 5:5, The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psa 5:6, Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Psa 7:11, God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
I am only quoting a few of the scriptures that speak on this subject in order to get a response.
It should be clear that the LORD abhors the bloody and deceitful man and that He hates all workers of iniquity.
He also, judges even the righteous; and is angry with the wicked every day.
Thoughts and comments?
.
.
.
I know that there are a few here who will discount the above scriptures as "not being in conjunction with the idea of God's agape love"
So, in this thread, I would also like to discuss the rationale that these people have for discounting certain scriptures while receiving others.
What is the criteria for this judgment? Anything that speaks of the Lord punishing the wicked is to be removed from holy scripture?
Is there any other reason why a scripture should not be included as inspired?
Because, if God's righteous judgment is the only thing that can be determined to "not be in conjunction with the idea of God's agape love", then I smell a rat.
It seems to me that there is simply a bias against a certain type of doctrine that is being wrapped up into semi-acceptable terminology as a selling point.
You dont even have a list of sins, what are you going to tell a convert?
You think you decide what sin is, and you cant even tell us what sin is.
That has already been done, you saying otherwise is irrelevant.
You will, and have simply ignored, what you don't want to hear.
That has never been done as far as I can tell.
But if you want, you can provide a link to the post where it has been done, if it has been done.
It is true that I do not read every post that has the UR point of view.
It is written,
Pro 19:27, Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.
But if you think that there is a verse or passage in holy scripture that refutes the concept of eternal torments, by all means post it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
You dont even have a list of sins, what are you going to tell a convert?
You think you decide what sin is, and you cant even tell us what sin is.
I can.
Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Sin is whatsoever is not of faith (Romans 14:23). And sin is knowing the good that you ought to do and not to do it (James 4:17).
I will say that 1 John 3:4 is qualified by Romans 7:6.
That has already been done, you saying otherwise is irrelevant.
You will, and have simply ignored, what you don't want to hear.
There is the proof below that it is a very deliberate closing of the eyes, plugging of the ears, and closing of the mouth in response to anything they have been told is heretical or evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
That has never been done as far as I can tell.
But if you want, you can provide a link to the post where it has been done, if it has been done.
It is true that I do not read every post that has the UR point of view.
It is written,
Pro 19:27, Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.
You remain trapped in our ancestors' primitive ignorance about God and there seems to be no way to help you escape it. You have been taught to ignore anything else. What a travesty! You poor souls will just have to learn the error of our primitive ancestors' ways the hard way. I will keep praying for your hearts to soften and respond to the Holy Spirit of agape love who resides within.
This lie is so frequent and completely unjustified it qualifies as trolling. How often do you have to be told it is NOT of my OWN imagination but DIRECTLY from your BIBLE!!! You people are so tedious and irritating that you cannot possibly know Jesus or have experienced His Holy Spirit of agape love. What Jesus did was to foster forgiveness IN US for the remission of our "sin disease." It had nothing to do with God's absolute and infinite forgiveness and never could. It is a fallible doctrine of human origin based on our imperfect human concept of justice by punishment. It has nothing to do with God's perfect justice. God's justice balances the scales for ALL involved, perpetrators and victims alike, something we humans can never do. The Gospel that we are saved by Jesus alone is undeniably TRUE because He achieved as a HUMAN what none of us could. But your corrupt human version of appeasement of God's wrath is wrong. God as presented by Jesus Christ on the Cross has NO wrath or vengeance in Him. There definitely ARE negative spiritual consequences for what we BECOME but they are NOT punishments imposed by God's wrath or vengeance and they are NOT eternal. God wants us to AVOID them. Again you cannot seem to resist the lies and accusations about my views! Please stop it. I accurately describe your views, please have the courtesy to do the same for mine. I am attempting to clear up the corruption and confusion wrought by our ancestors' primitive ignorance about God, NOT create more confusion.
The overall Good News Gospel message is the SAME. Christ fully represents God, He came in HUMAN form to bring God's Holy Spirit of agape love to His HUMAN consciousness for the remission of our "sin disease," He endured horrendous scourging and crucifixion with His perfect agape love (Grace) to appease the wrath and vengeance of our brutal savage ancestors, and He abides with us since His death as the Comforter to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our HEARTS" (NOT the words "written in ink" in the Bible).
That is why we must TEST the spirit of what is written there and properly divide the scriptures and interpret them with God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed by Jesus Christ on the Cross, NOT the wrathful and vengeful God believed in by our primitive ancestors.
God, according to Nahum 1:2-3, John 3:36, and a number of other passages, definitely has wrath and vengeance in Him; and justice as concerning sin.
He also provides forgiveness so that no one has to fall under His wrath if they will simply receive the free gift of salvation (Romans 5:15-19, Romans 6:23) that God has to offer them.
That this is only through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross offends you, doesn't it?
That makes sense; for it is written,
Gal 5:11, And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
This verse teaches us that the true preaching of the Cross is offensive to the carnal mind.
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