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Do you think God did this to man, or did man do it to himself?
That is a vibrant and interesting question. The answer to it will depend on our answer to another question: Does anything surprise God? In other words, do things sometimes happen that God did not see coming? If so, we will have to reconsider the whole question of God's omniscience.
If nothing surprises God (we must say so, after all, if we believe that God is all-knowing), then the fall of humanity is in perfect keeping with His plan.
"God did this to man" is a rather accusatory way of phrasing it - - but essentially correct.
That is a vibrant and interesting question. The answer to it will depend on our answer to another question: Does anything surprise God? In other words, do things sometimes happen that God did not see coming? If so, we will have to reconsider the whole question of God's omniscience.
If nothing surprises God (we must say so, after all, if we believe that God is all-knowing), then the fall of humanity is in perfect keeping with His plan.
"God did this to man" is a rather accusatory way of phrasing it - - but essentially correct.
So when Adam chose to disobey God and brought about the fall of all creation, God did it, it was His fault?
Is it God's fault that all humanity from that day are born in sin?
So when Adam chose to disobey God and brought about the fall of all creation, God did it, it was His fault?
Is it God's fault that all humanity from that day are born in sin?
I think your basic point is this: God is perfectly good, as so therefore He could have had nothing to do with sin coming into the world. Sin is a defect that He didn't want in His creation, and so he is angry about it.
If that is true, then we're forced to say that some small, finite creature got the better of God and screwed up His creation by sneaking sin in the back door. That can't be right, can it?
So when Adam chose to disobey God and brought about the fall of all creation, God did it, it was His fault?
Is it God's fault that all humanity from that day are born in sin?
When will you abandon this childish interpretation of our first lesson about good and evil, Charlie. We had just been created and had no knowledge of good or evil, that is why we had to experience it. It was our species' basic experience. There is nothing in our universe that is created fully mature. There is a maturation sequence for everything. This applies to our soul as well.
In the story of Genesis, most religious interpreters would have us believe, God became angry with us because we did not control our animal body and did what we were forbidden to do. This silly idea of God getting angry over a fruit, symbolic, sexual, or otherwise, is an excellent example of what can be achieved through interpreting childhood as though it were adulthood!
Humankind as described in Genesis had just been born. He possessed the mere infant of a soul. A suggestion that this infant soul would be punished for its inadequacies is absurd! Naturally, this soul was inadequate to control the animal body it inhabited.
The episodes in Genesis describe our basic experiences. Teaching, at the very basic level, requires experiencing more than explanation. Words have no meaning without some base to relate them to. If you sit down and discuss all the ramifications of touching fire with your toddler, you are wasting your time. An intellect without experience cannot be taught by talking. There are certain basics in life that must be experienced.
Once your toddler touches something painfully hot, he will learn what the words "hot" and "burn" mean. Thereafter, when you tell him not to touch the red hot burner on a stove because it is hot and will burn him, he can relate what you have told him to his basic experience and learn about stoves burning without experiencing it. Let's face it, you wouldn't want your child to learn about hot and burn by touching the red-hot electric burner on your stove and receiving third-degree burns!
The Genesis stories simply capture our primordial consciousness (understanding) of the beginning of human life and chronicle the universal basic experiences (lessons) of human development. It is common knowledge that each and every human being in each generation must experience and repeat the entire pattern of human development. Each individual must learn everything for himself with the aid of his parents or society.
It is NOT common knowledge that the womb existence is a repetition of the evolution into a human being, and the various stages of fetal development mirror that evolution. The fetus even appears to have gills like a fish at one stage. The actual birth represents the "seeding" of a soul, the breathing into man's nostrils of the breath of life (Atman, Adamah). Infancy represents Eden, with parents as the all-providing God, and so on through maturity. "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be."
I think your basic point is this: God is perfectly good, as so therefore He could have had nothing to do with sin coming into the world. Sin is a defect that He didn't want in His creation, and so he is angry about it.
If that is true, then we're forced to say that some small, finite creature got the better of God and screwed up His creation by sneaking sin in the back door. That can't be right, can it?
The Author of all is the Finisher of all. Never does the will of the created override the Will of the Creator!
“To argue that God is 'trying His best' to save all mankind, but that the majority of men will not let Him save them, is to insist that the will of the Creator is impotent, and that the will of the creature is omnipotent.” ~Arthur W. Pink
When will you abandon this childish interpretation of our first lesson about good and evil, Charlie. We had just been created and had no knowledge of good or evil, that is why we had to experience it. It was our species' basic experience. There is nothing in our universe that is created fully mature. There is a maturation sequence for everything. This applies to our soul as well.
In the story of Genesis, most religious interpreters would have us believe, God became angry with us because we did not control our animal body and did what we were forbidden to do. This silly idea of God getting angry over a fruit, symbolic, sexual, or otherwise, is an excellent example of what can be achieved through interpreting childhood as though it were adulthood!
Humankind as described in Genesis had just been born. He possessed the mere infant of a soul. A suggestion that this infant soul would be punished for its inadequacies is absurd! Naturally, this soul was inadequate to control the animal body it inhabited.
The episodes in Genesis describe our basic experiences. Teaching, at the very basic level, requires experiencing more than explanation. Words have no meaning without some base to relate them to. If you sit down and discuss all the ramifications of touching fire with your toddler, you are wasting your time. An intellect without experience cannot be taught by talking. There are certain basics in life that must be experienced.
Once your toddler touches something painfully hot, he will learn what the words "hot" and "burn" mean. Thereafter, when you tell him not to touch the red hot burner on a stove because it is hot and will burn him, he can relate what you have told him to his basic experience and learn about stoves burning without experiencing it. Let's face it, you wouldn't want your child to learn about hot and burn by touching the red-hot electric burner on your stove and receiving third-degree burns!
The Genesis stories simply capture our primordial consciousness (understanding) of the beginning of human life and chronicle the universal basic experiences (lessons) of human development. It is common knowledge that each and every human being in each generation must experience and repeat the entire pattern of human development. Each individual must learn everything for himself with the aid of his parents or society.
It is NOT common knowledge that the womb existence is a repetition of the evolution into a human being, and the various stages of fetal development mirror that evolution. The fetus even appears to have gills like a fish at one stage. The actual birth represents the "seeding" of a soul, the breathing into man's nostrils of the breath of life (Atman, Adamah). Infancy represents Eden, with parents as the all-providing God, and so on through maturity. "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be."
That's a load of horse manure! Very shortly after being created God brought the wildlife world before him to give them names. There was no time of maturing, they were created mature adults.
But of course if you insist the creation story is is not literal, then you can make yourself believe all sorts of tales and fables of man, the door is wide open for unbelief in every facet of scripture.
That's a load of horse manure! Very shortly after being created God brought the wildlife world before him to give them names. There was no time of maturing, they were created mature adults.
But of course if you insist the creation story is is not literal, then you can make yourself believe all sorts of tales and fables of man, the door is wide open for unbelief in every facet of scripture.
There are different times for things
The plan goes before the execution of the plan
In Genesis 2 we see this separation from Genesis 1
Gen 2:4**These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5**And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6**But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Rom 4:17**(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18**Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
G2564***(Strong)
καλέω
kaleō
kal-eh'-o
Akin to the base of G2753; to “call” (properly aloud, but used in a variety of applications, directly or otherwise): - bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur-) name (was [called]).
G2046***(Strong)
ἐρέω
ereō
er-eh'-o
Probably a fuller form of G4483; an alternate for G2036 in certain tenses; to utter, that is, speak or say: - call, say, speak (of), tell.
G4690***(Strong)
σπέρμα
sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.
Gods days are not our days
Just like Gods thoughts are not our thoughts
And Gods ways are not our ways
Mystics theological, philosophical, endeavours have the same flaws that all are subject to when they tackle the Scriptures and will depend on our own religious/theological/philosophical starting point (and baggage)
This has always been the case
He can only go at the pace of those around him, Scripture is not meant to be understood individually- it is to be understood relationally depending on the time/season/assembly/situation/participants which will always vary
Act 2:5**And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6**Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7**And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8**And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9**Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10**Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11**Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12**And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13**Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Gal 3:22**But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23**But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24**Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25**But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26**For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27**For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28**There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29**And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
G3807***(Strong)
παιδαγωγός
paidagōgos
pahee-dag-o-gos'
From G3816 and a reduplication form of G71; a boy leader, that is, a servant whose office it was to take the children to school; (by implication [figuratively] a tutor [“paedagogue”]): - instructor, schoolmaster.
In Genesis 2 we see this separation from Genesis 1
Gen 2:4**These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5**And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6**But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Rom 4:17**(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18**Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
G2564***(Strong)
καλέω
kaleō
kal-eh'-o
Akin to the base of G2753; to “call” (properly aloud, but used in a variety of applications, directly or otherwise): - bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur-) name (was [called]).
G2046***(Strong)
ἐρέω
ereō
er-eh'-o
Probably a fuller form of G4483; an alternate for G2036 in certain tenses; to utter, that is, speak or say: - call, say, speak (of), tell.
G4690***(Strong)
σπέρμα
sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.
Gods days are not our days
Just like Gods thoughts are not our thoughts
And Gods ways are not our ways
Mystics theological, philosophical, endeavours have the same flaws that all are subject to when they tackle the Scriptures and will depend on our own religious/theological/philosophical starting point (and baggage)
This has always been the case
He can only go at the pace of those around him, Scripture is not meant to be understood individually- it is to be understood relationally depending on the time/season/assembly/situation/participants which will always vary
Act 2:5**And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6**Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7**And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8**And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9**Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10**Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11**Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12**And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13**Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Gal 3:22**But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23**But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24**Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25**But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26**For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27**For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28**There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29**And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
G3807***(Strong)
παιδαγωγός
paidagōgos
pahee-dag-o-gos'
From G3816 and a reduplication form of G71; a boy leader, that is, a servant whose office it was to take the children to school; (by implication [figuratively] a tutor [“paedagogue”]): - instructor, schoolmaster.
We can see where that "rationalizing" will lead you! Can't take it for what it says, got to pick it apart and form your own conclusion, but that's the way of man's intellect.
Your post is just another conglomeration of scripture taken out of context, so much for rationalizing in the mind of man.
We can see where that "rationalizing" will lead you! Can't take it for what it says, got to pick it apart and form your own conclusion, but that's the way of man's intellect.
Your post is just another conglomeration of scripture taken out of context, so much for rationalizing in the mind of man.
Things are built upon
This has happened for the past 2000 years ..... 2 days
That's a load of horse manure! Very shortly after being created God brought the wildlife world before him to give them names. There was no time of maturing, they were created mature adults.
But of course if you insist the creation story is is not literal, then you can make yourself believe all sorts of tales and fables of man, the door is wide open for unbelief in every facet of scripture.
Your entire theology of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifice to enable Him to forgive us for "whatever" is a load of infantile, primitive, and barbaric manure, Charlie! The creation story IS a fable and you are believing it along with a bunch of old wives' tales, genealogies, and whatnot from primitive and barbaric minds.
1 Timothy 1:4
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
1 Timothy 4:7
But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
2 Timothy 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Titus 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
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