Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-29-2021, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,139 posts, read 10,434,069 times
Reputation: 2338

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
The bible explicitly affirms that God has blessed His Chosen people according to the truth He chose them to be holy and blameless before the foundation of the world, because in themselves they were not holy nor blameless. He also predestinated them, not according to their will, but according to the good pleasure of His Will, that it would be to the PRAISE of the GLORY of HIS GRACE minus their works, unconditionally. Eph 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Unto the adoption, those first Gentiles were adopted and grafted through the promise of.the ten tribes return.

They stop disrespecting Moses, and they reject all their former paganism to keep the same worship system Jesus kept, and this is why they were adopted.

Modern Christian's are in no way adopted and grafted into Israel, they have to do what is demanded of the returning tribes to do.

God ended them be abuse they called the Torah a strange thing and they took on the same holy days Christians keep today.

Those pagan holy days separate the Christian from the Jew, the Christian no longer becomes one people with God's people.


Two people having two different worship systems cannot become one people. Jews cannot join Christian's in lawlessness and paganism.

You stand divided and not counted in the inheritance of Israel, " SAYS GOD."


Isaiah 56 explains the only way a Gentile can take hold of God covenant and the Christian refuses, they reject the covenant altogether. They reject the idea of becoming one people with Jews, and that was the whole point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-29-2021, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,139 posts, read 10,434,069 times
Reputation: 2338
The only way a Gentile can be adopted into the inheritance of Israel.

Isaiah 56
Salvation for All Nations


1Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

8The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.




The first Christian's took hold of God's covenant, todays Christian's reject the covenant altogether, they reject their inheritance. They will not be added to the nation, and they will not be gathered to the nation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2021, 12:13 PM
 
4,627 posts, read 1,171,293 times
Reputation: 86
Unconditional Election, the calling and predestination of certain people to Salvation before the world began Eph 1:4-5, this is Grace only. How is it that election of grace could be conditional before the world began, when no conditions by man could have been performed ? Man had not yet been Created, Adam had not yet been formed from the ground. How was any person Chosen to Salvation before the world began, if salvation is contingent upon his freewill to choose or believe first after the world began ? Also see Rom 9:11
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2021, 12:22 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,895 posts, read 3,687,881 times
Reputation: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
Unconditional Election, the calling and predestination of certain people to Salvation before the world began Eph 1:4-5, this is Grace only. How is it that election of grace could be conditional before the world began, when no conditions by man could have been performed ? Man had not yet been Created, Adam had not yet been formed from the ground. How was any person Chosen to Salvation before the world began, if salvation is contingent upon his freewill to choose or believe first after the world began ? Also see Rom 9:11
That election is not about any isolated, physical, individual

We are told the strife/war/wrestling is not with the individual flesh and blood, but with the principalities, powers, etc

The Whole Armor of God
Eph 6:10**As to the rest, my brothers, be strong in the LORD, and in the power of His might;
Eph 6:11**put on the whole armor of God, so you are able to stand against the schemes of the Devil,
Eph 6:12**because our wrestling is not with flesh and blood, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual [forces] of evil in the heavenly places;
Eph 6:13**because of this take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the day of the evil, and having done all things—to stand.
Eph 6:14**Stand, therefore, having your loins girded around in truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15**and having the feet shod in the preparation of the good news of peace;
Eph 6:16**in all, having taken up the shield of faith, in which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one,
Eph 6:17**and receive the helmet of the salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2021, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,349,449 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
Unconditional Election, the calling and predestination of certain people to Salvation before the world began Eph 1:4-5, this is Grace only. How is it that election of grace could be conditional before the world began, when no conditions by man could have been performed ? Man had not yet been Created, Adam had not yet been formed from the ground. How was any person Chosen to Salvation before the world began, if salvation is contingent upon his freewill to choose or believe first after the world began ? Also see Rom 9:11
You can preach this nonsense all you want, but how do you know - if you are one of the elect or the one elected to eternal damnation?

Jesus was SLAIN (violently murdered or butchered) before the FOUNDATION (disposition and opposition) of the WORLD (inhabitants).

It appears to me that the death of Jesus was brought about through human volition, given the political and religious powers of the day. Although at the same time, Jesus was fully aware that his message of the Kingdom and what he represented to the status quo would ultimately lead to his (violent) death. Thus, his life was an issue in setting the captives free from the established, religious sects of his day. But his death was not divinely foreordained as a penal substitution, whereas, there is no greater love than to lay one's own life down for that of another.

Many are fixated on Jesus' death, and will accept nothing but the blood of Jesus, as "they know not, what they do." Although, there is only ONE whose undeniable innocence (not an ordinary victim) was able to change the process of scapegoating (a slaughterhouse religion having a ritual, carnivorous diet). It is a saving act of God; a victory over the powers of this world (men) and a defeat of sin and death, reversing it through his Life and Resurrection.

The cross may, indeed be, the centerpiece of the Christian religion, but it is not God's altar. Rather, it is the gospel which was/is/will end all bloodshed, not that of merely exchanging victims (bulls and goats for that of Christ as a substitution). It was a sacrifice to end all sacrificing. Let's not make it a prescription for suffering death, but ONE of LIFE. Through personal experience, the human race will learn how deadly and destructive their beliefs have been. Collectively, we still have not learned that lesson, but we will – that's a promise!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2021, 12:32 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,895 posts, read 3,687,881 times
Reputation: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
You can preach this nonsense all you want, but how do you know - if you are one of the elect or the one elected to eternal damnation?

Jesus was SLAIN (violently murdered or butchered) before the FOUNDATION (disposition and opposition) of the WORLD (inhabitants).

It appears to me that the death of Jesus was brought about through human volition, given the political and religious powers of the day. Although at the same time, Jesus was fully aware that his message of the Kingdom and what he represented to the status quo would ultimately lead to his (violent) death. Thus, his life was an issue in setting the captives free from the established, religious sects of his day. But his death was not divinely foreordained as a penal substitution, whereas, there is no greater love than to lay one's own life down for that of another.

Many are fixated on Jesus' death, and will accept nothing but the blood of Jesus, as "they know not, what they do." Although, there is only ONE whose undeniable innocence (not an ordinary victim) was able to change the process of scapegoating (a slaughterhouse religion having a ritual, carnivorous diet). It is a saving act of God; a victory over the powers of this world (men) and a defeat of sin and death, reversing it through his Life and Resurrection.

The cross may, indeed be, the centerpiece of the Christian religion, but it is not God's altar. Rather, it is the gospel which was/is/will end all bloodshed, not that of merely exchanging victims (bulls and goats for that of Christ as a substitution). It was a sacrifice to end all sacrificing. Let's not make it a prescription for suffering death, but ONE of LIFE. Through personal experience, the human race will learn how deadly and destructive their beliefs have been. Collectively, we still have not learned that lesson, but we will – that's a promise!
I believe that too jerwade
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2021, 01:10 PM
 
63,785 posts, read 40,053,123 times
Reputation: 7868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
You can preach this nonsense all you want, but how do you know - if you are one of the elect or the one elected to eternal damnation?

Jesus was SLAIN (violently murdered or butchered) before the FOUNDATION (disposition and opposition) of the WORLD (inhabitants).

It appears to me that the death of Jesus was brought about through human volition, given the political and religious powers of the day. Although at the same time, Jesus was fully aware that his message of the Kingdom and what he represented to the status quo would ultimately lead to his (violent) death. Thus, his life was an issue in setting the captives free from the established, religious sects of his day. But his death was not divinely foreordained as a penal substitution, whereas, there is no greater love than to lay one's own life down for that of another.

Many are fixated on Jesus' death, and will accept nothing but the blood of Jesus, as "they know not, what they do." Although, there is only ONE whose undeniable innocence (not an ordinary victim) was able to change the process of scapegoating (a slaughterhouse religion having a ritual, carnivorous diet). It is a saving act of God; a victory over the powers of this world (men) and a defeat of sin and death, reversing it through his Life and Resurrection.

The cross may, indeed be, the centerpiece of the Christian religion, but it is not God's altar. Rather, it is the gospel which was/is/will end all bloodshed, not that of merely exchanging victims (bulls and goats for that of Christ as a substitution). It was a sacrifice to end all sacrificing. Let's not make it a prescription for suffering death, but ONE of LIFE. Through personal experience, the human race will learn how deadly and destructive their beliefs have been. Collectively, we still have not learned that lesson, but we will – that's a promise!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2 View Post
I believe that too jerwade
Me too!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2021, 12:42 PM
 
4,627 posts, read 1,171,293 times
Reputation: 86
Election isn't conditioned on the saints believing, but the saint [believer] was chosen to be a saint[holy] Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now that word holy is the greek word hagios and means :

most holy thing, a saint

Its the same greek word Paul uses in the introduction to whom hes writing Eh 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And saints here are believers, the faithful, so they were chosen unto that end before the foundation, and not because they are believers, saints, or faithful.

Election of Grace is unconditional.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2021, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,349,449 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
Election isn't conditioned on the saints believing, but the saint [believer] was chosen to be a saint[holy] Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now that word holy is the greek word hagios and means :

most holy thing, a saint

Its the same greek word Paul uses in the introduction to whom hes writing Eh 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And saints here are believers, the faithful, so they were chosen unto that end before the foundation, and not because they are believers, saints, or faithful.

Election of Grace is unconditional.
Grace is the empowering Presence and Power of God which enables us to be who He created us to be; and to do what He has called us to do. It has nothing to do with his mercy (unmerited favor) or that of a Penal Substitution theory. Rather, it is that which enables us to overcome, any and all obstacles that might be hindering our Spiritual growth and maturity, each and everyone of us. Unmerited favor, would be that of having or showing mercy to an enemy through that of love. Especially, one who spitefully persecutes you, "father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about with that elitism mentality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2021, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,139 posts, read 10,434,069 times
Reputation: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
Unconditional Election, the calling and predestination of certain people to Salvation before the world began Eph 1:4-5, this is Grace only. How is it that election of grace could be conditional before the world began, when no conditions by man could have been performed ? Man had not yet been Created, Adam had not yet been formed from the ground. How was any person Chosen to Salvation before the world began, if salvation is contingent upon his freewill to choose or believe first after the world began ? Also see Rom 9:11

Roman's 9 11


For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy



Roman's is explaining how one person is both, he is the first born and the second born. He is of Jacob and of Esau.


Same thing Galatians teaches, that we are of Isaac and we are of Ishmael. That there is a law for each where the laws of Moses will judge all flesh and condemn all flesh, but the hidden inner man cannot sin.


God hates Esau because Esau represents the outer man while Isaac is the hidden man within.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top