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For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
Roman's is explaining how one person is both, he is the first born and the second born. He is of Jacob and of Esau.
Same thing Galatians teaches, that we are of Isaac and we are of Ishmael. That there is a law for each where the laws of Moses will judge all flesh and condemn all flesh, but the hidden inner man cannot sin.
God hates Esau because Esau represents the outer man while Isaac is the hidden man within.
No it isnt, it is explained this way in all the stories, that you consist of a first born of flesh, the outer man, but that inside you is the hidden man of the spirit.
It shows true from the garden, shown in Cain and Abel, shown in Ishmael and Isaac, shown in Jacob and Esau even to the point of showing Jacob clothed in the skin of Esau. Jacob had presented himself to his father as Esau and symbolically wearing the skins of Esau. That is quite the polaroid.
Now it is Ephraim and Judah, and that is exactly what Paul is explaining about Egypt and Israel, that Egypt was chosen for destruction and who can argue with God.
He chooses a nation and appoints them to destruction, and Paul is using the history of the kingdom of Ephraim to try and explain that just as Egypt was appointed for destruction, so too was Ephraim, and Paul was of Ephraim, not Judah.
The kingdom of Ephraim is now known as the ten lost tribes because God ended their kingdom because they separated from Judah, and thus from the law, the temple.
The kingdom of Ephraim chose the ways of the world instead of becoming one with Jews.
The New Testament is about 2 nations, not one nation, the kingdom of Ephraim is the nation Paul came from, not Judah.
Paul uses his own adoption into becoming a Jew as he says, " EVEN US, NOT OF THE JEW ONLY."
Ephraim/Israel were never Jewish and that was the problem, they are to return as the prodigal nation to one day come back to the father and their brother who stayed home with the father.
Jesus said that he only came looking for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, NOT JEWS.
Learn the history hand, the whole book comes down to who is Ephraim and who is Judah.
Ephraim is God's first born son, the wicked kingdom that was ended 700 years before Chriat came.
This whole chapter is dedicated to saying the same thing I am saying, it is saying the same thing in Romans
Galatians 4
Sons and Heirs
(Genesis 21:1-8; Romans 8:12-17)
1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Paul's Concern for the Galatians
8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
12Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. 13Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. 14And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. 15Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. 16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? 17They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. 18But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.( After you have cast out the bondswoman and her son TAKE NOTICE THAT PAUL WAS GREATLY IN FEAR AND DOUBT BECAUSE HIS OWN CONVERTS COULDNT CAST OUT THE BONDSWOMAN AND HER SON, AND IF PAUL'S OWN CONVERTS COULDNT MAKE IT, WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT CHRISTIAN WHO ARENT EVEN IN THE SAME RELIGION AS PAUL AND JESUS?
That you are of the first born, and the second born, well, it is what was said to Gentile converts of Judaism, the Gentiles who converted to the same religion and the same worship system of Christ, so, I guess that is not you hih?
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 10-02-2021 at 04:40 PM..
No it isnt, it is explained this way in all the stories, that you consist of a first born of flesh, the outer man, but that inside you is the hidden man of the spirit.
It shows true from the garden, shown in Cain and Abel, shown in Ishmael and Isaac, shown in Jacob and Esau even to the point of showing Jacob clothed in the skin of Esau. Jacob had presented himself to his father as Esau and symbolically wearing the skins of Esau. That is quite the polaroid.
Now it is Ephraim and Judah, and that is exactly what Paul is explaining about Egypt and Israel, that Egypt was chosen for destruction and who can argue with God.
He chooses a nation and appoints them to destruction, and Paul is using the history of the kingdom of Ephraim to try and explain that just as Egypt was appointed for destruction, so too was Ephraim, and Paul was of Ephraim, not Judah.
The kingdom of Ephraim is now known as the ten lost tribes because God ended their kingdom because they separated from Judah, and thus from the law, the temple.
The kingdom of Ephraim chose the ways of the world instead of becoming one with Jews.
The New Testament is about 2 nations, not one nation, the kingdom of Ephraim is the nation Paul came from, not Judah.
Paul uses his own adoption into becoming a Jew as he says, " EVEN US, NOT OF THE JEW ONLY."
Ephraim/Israel were never Jewish and that was the problem, they are to return as the prodigal nation to one day come back to the father and their brother who stayed home with the father.
Jesus said that he only came looking for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, NOT JEWS.
Learn the history hand, the whole book comes down to who is Ephraim and who is Judah.
Ephraim is God's first born son, the wicked kingdom that was ended 700 years before Chriat came.
The Blessing of Election is that it is a blessing from God and we have nothing to do with it! We can neither claim it exclusively nor deny it to others because it has nothing to do with us, our differing opinions about it notwithstanding. Peace.
The Blessing of Election is that it is a blessing from God and we have nothing to do with it! We can neither claim it exclusively nor deny it to others because it has nothing to do with us, our differing opinions about it notwithstanding. Peace.
Not for us individually
Mat 18:20**For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them
There are a lot of qualifications in Scripture
The election has to do with Jesus choosing his apostles from amongst his disciples to continue his work
This is how we get the bible, a joining together of both testaments which is the work that he came to do through his own people
Mat 1:21**And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22**Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23**Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 15:11**These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12**This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13**Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14**Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:15**Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Joh 15:16**Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Joh 15:17**These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Is Unconditional Election of only some to Salvation unfair ?
Lets see what one Gospel writer has stated:
Quote:
Election is not about a man’s will, it is not about man choosing God, but about God choosing whomsoever He wills to be saved. Again, people see this as unfair. They say, ‘What chance do we have if God does the choosing?’ The elephant in the room which all lost men fail to see, is: no man has any chance to choose God, for they are all dead in trespasses and sins (see Eph.2:1,5; Rom. 3:9). God is the only hope, the only chance any lost, Hell-deserving sinner has. Man is not neutral, he is dead. God’s choosing to save some helpless and hopelessly unworthy people is the glory of God. God explains this as His Goodness: “And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy” (Ex. 33:19). The goodness of God is to be gracious to those whom He wills to be gracious, and to show mercy toward those whom He wills to be merciful. If you do not believe and abide in this doctrine, you do not have God. God’s choosing those to whom He would be merciful and gracious, IS GOD’S GOODNESS, not any display of unrighteousness on His part. Flee anyone and everyone who dares to claim that election is in any way unrighteous.
Let us now examine the question: “‘Is there unrighteousness with God?’ This is not an objection of Paul’s, but of an adversary, which he takes up and returns an answer to; and which itself greatly serves to settle and confirm the true sense and meaning of the apostle in this place; as that it could not be, that election and rejection of men should proceed according to their merits; or that God chooses some for their good works, and rejects others for their wicked works, because no man could ever pretend to charge God with unrighteousness on this account; nor could it be that God chose and rejected men, upon a foresight of their good and evil works, for this also would not be liable to such an objection; nor that the Jews, having made the law of none effect by their traditions, despised the Gospel, crucified Christ, and persecuted His disciples, are therefore cast off, and the Gentiles, being obedient both in word and deed, are received into favour, for this likewise would not be chargeable with unrighteousness by men; but that two persons, as Jacob and Esau, and the same may be said of all mankind, being upon an equal foot, not being yet born, nor having done either good or evil, an inequality, a difference is made between them, by God Himself; the one is chosen, the other passed by: now in this is some show, some pretence at least, for such an objection; nor is it any wonder to meet with it from the carnal reason of men; wherefore we may be sure that the latter, and not either of the former, is the true sense of the apostle; since only this, and not either of them, is liable to such an exception: let us attend to the apostle's answer, which is ‘first’ in his usual manner, by way of detestation and abhorrence, ‘God forbid’: God is not unrighteous in His nature; nor in any of His ways and works; nor in this, in choosing some and rejecting others. There is no unrighteousness with God in that part of predestination, commonly called election; for this is neither an act of justice, nor injustice; not of justice, but of grace and mercy; of undue and undeserved grace and mercy, of mere Sovereign grace and mercy; and is what God was not obliged to do; wherefore to choose some and not others, is no act of injustice; for injustice is a violation of justice, which has no place in this affair: if it is an act of injustice, it must be either to them that are chosen, or to them that are not; not to them that are chosen, to them it is an act of favour and good will, they are chosen to grace and glory, to holiness here, and happiness hereafter; not to them that are passed by, because they had no right nor claim to the grace and glory, which by this act are denied them, and therefore no injustice is done them.” Moreno Dal Bello https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone
What's being said is that No, unconditional election of some is not unfair, its not a matter of justice at all, but a matter of undeserved mercy
What's being said is that No, unconditional election of some is not unfair, its not a matter of justice at all, but a matter of undeserved mercy
Grace is the empowering Presence and Power of God which enables us to be who He created us to be; and to do what He has called us to do. It has nothing to do with his mercy (unmerited favor) or that of a Penal Substitution theory. Rather, it is that which enables us to overcome, any and all obstacles that might be hindering our Spiritual growth and maturity. Unmerited favor, would be that of having or showing mercy to an enemy through that of love.
Especially, one who spitefully persecutes you, "father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Grace is the empowering Presence and Power of God which enables us to be who He created us to be; and to do what He has called us to do. It has nothing to do with his mercy (unmerited favor) or that of a Penal Substitution theory. Rather, it is that which enables us to overcome, any and all obstacles that might be hindering our Spiritual growth and maturity. Unmerited favor, would be that of having or showing mercy to an enemy through that of love.
Especially, one who spitefully persecutes you, "father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Grace is the empowering Presence and Power of God which enables us to be who He created us to be; and to do what He has called us to do. It has nothing to do with his mercy (unmerited favor) or that of a Penal Substitution theory. Rather, it is that which enables us to overcome, any and all obstacles that might be hindering our Spiritual growth and maturity. Unmerited favor, would be that of having or showing mercy to an enemy through that of love.
Especially, one who spitefully persecutes you, "father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Did you read the post carefully ? Whats being said ?
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It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Blessing of Election !
Peace.
