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But how are we to know if we are among the lucky few who have been elected? Are you? How do you know?
You are talking about the ten tribes being seeded into all the nations, you are talking about the prophesies which concern the prodigal nation of Israel coming back to the father and the brother.
Hosea
And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
God sowed the whole nation of Israel into the nations for a great harvest of Gentiles in the last days.
The prophets foretell of this great, great host of multitudes that make the numbers of Judah appear tiny.
700 years before Jesus they became the desolate house, and Jesus came specifically to make a way that they could be redeemed into Israel.
For 700 years before Jesus there was a 7000 man elect in every generations, and that is the election.
Any Gentile from any nation can come and join Israel by coming back to the father and the brother as the prodigal Must Do.
You are asking how one knows if he is among the elect?
It's just a silly question Mystic.
You are either Israel or not, you are either with the Jews or not. You have either been grafted into Israel or not.
You are either in the same religion as Jesus or not.
You are not lol, not even close, you havent even considered to do the things Ephraim must do in order to come back.
God ended Israel because they accepted Easter and the winter solstice, Christians did the same thing and now they are amongst the lost for the same reason.
You cant be added to the nation unless you convert, a Muslim cant remain a Muslim, a Hindu cant remain a Hindu.
There is only one type of Gentile who becomes the elect, and that is the Gentile who holds to the worship system of Christ, Christian's WILL NOT.
You and all these Christian's in here reject the worship system of Christ, and in its place are the same holy days that ended Israel.
You haven't returned.
You arent Israel or even trying to become Israel.
Should I list all the prophesies of Ephraim's return and what he must do to return?
Jeremiah
…17So there is hope for your future, declares the LORD, and your children will return to their own land. 18I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. 19After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’…
Ephraim/Israel sat in darkness 700 years because they rejected the holy days of Jerusalem and called the Torah a strange thing.
You are falsley claiming that you have come back to God's religion, you are falsley claiming to have come back to the holy days of Jerusalem.
Now in considering the bible teaching on unconditional election, we must consider its logical counterpart the doctrine of unconditional reprobation. Thats not to say the reprobate wont be punished justly for their sins in reprobation, however God sovereignly chose to exercise justice on them for their sins, as opposed to having sovereignly chose to exercise mercy towards the elect for their sins.
Now here are some biblical concepts for unconditional reprobation:
. First, God hath refused or rejected some particular persons, on whom he purposed never to have mercy; this is most evident from the Scriptures following. “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” John 10:26 “But the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.” Rom11:7. “Therefore hath he mercy, on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Rom 9:18
These are people whom God has purposed not to heal/save Jn 12:39-40
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Now in considering the bible teaching on unconditional election, we must consider its logical counterpart the doctrine of unconditional reprobation. Thats not to say the reprobate wont be punished justly for their sins in reprobation, however God sovereignly chose to exercise justice on them for their sins, as opposed to having sovereignly chose to exercise mercy towards the elect for their sins.
Now here are some biblical concepts for unconditional reprobation:
. First, God hath refused or rejected some particular persons, on whom he purposed never to have mercy; this is most evident from the Scriptures following. “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” John 10:26 “But the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.” Rom11:7. “Therefore hath he mercy, on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Rom 9:18
These are people whom God has purposed not to heal/save Jn 12:39-40
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
"If you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them."
Now in considering the bible teaching on unconditional election, we must consider its logical counterpart the doctrine of unconditional reprobation. Thats not to say the reprobate wont be punished justly for their sins in reprobation, however God sovereignly chose to exercise justice on them for their sins, as opposed to having sovereignly chose to exercise mercy towards the elect for their sins.
Now here are some biblical concepts for unconditional reprobation:
. First, God hath refused or rejected some particular persons, on whom he purposed never to have mercy; this is most evident from the Scriptures following. “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” John 10:26 “But the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.” Rom11:7. “Therefore hath he mercy, on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Rom 9:18
These are people whom God has purposed not to heal/save Jn 12:39-40
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
You talking about a people' s historiacal past, a past of two nations and you dont know whst you are talking about.
Why dont you study the kingdoms before you go embarrass yourself.
That's too much to ask from Christians.
The difference between you and actual history, is that I could go into the Judaism forum, write a ten page post about the election of Israel and nobody is going to argue the facts.
But you people come in here and just make stuff up that are flat out lies, or just sheer ignorance of the subject.
You arent in the election genius.
When did the election begin?
So freaking ridiculous, you people claiming to be the election.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-25-2021 at 07:15 AM..
The Election is Israel, and Christian's are not Israel, ARE NOT WITH THE JEWS PRACTICING THE RELIGION OF MESSIAH.
If you converted to the religion of Messiah, you would be coming in here today singing the praises of Hashannah Rabba and Shemini Atzeret. You would be talking about what your plans were for the occasion and speaking about each tradition and each ritual that teaches Messiah and how in a couple days, you are in expectation a spiritual rain that you have been praying for all your life
The elect would be in here teaching secrets of Torah.
The elect are the elect because they are Israel, and they are the ones who love the religion of messiah and they love learning how all the 7 feasts teach of Messiah, they are in great support for Jews, and they are adopted and grafted into Israel because they accepted the worship system of Christ and became one with Jews.
You people are not one with Jews in the religion of messiah.
Reality check.
For 2000 years, the Jews alone have kept the religion of messiah and been persecuted and killed for doing it.
For 2000 years the church has persecuted and killed Jews and Gentiles for practicing the religion of Messiah.
Now the oppressors of lawlessness and paganism come claiming to be the victims who were killed for following the religion of messiah.
The Christianity forum is shameless, you come in here claiming anything you want when it has nothing to do with historical facts of a literal nation you are speaking of.
Shamefull.
Hashanah Rabba and Simchat Torah is at hand, the election know this because they are in the religion of Messiah.
The election are praying for the rain right now, and when they recieve it, everyone will see who is who.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-25-2021 at 07:15 AM..
But how are we to know if we are among the lucky few who have been elected? Are you? How do you know?
I appreciate your promoting your views, Hanni, but I do not agree with your interpretations. I would like BrightFame to answer my questions since he/she is so obviously certain about the election business.
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Hence one of the blessings of election in Christ before the foundation of the world, it is that the chosen ones have been accepted of the Father, hence in a accepted justified state with God the Father; And this again before the foundation of the world, and before Faith in time. God is well pleased with their persons, according as He chose them in Christ before the foundation, and as Paul wrote to the Corinthian Church 1 Cor 1:30
30But of him [God the Father] are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Someone may have already mentioned this, but the more plausible (and certainly more intellectually and emotionally satisfying) explanation is that this is talking about "corporate election," not individual election. God decided before the foundation of the world that all of those who turned to Christ (i.e., the corporate body of Christ) would be saved. Much as I might like to think otherwise, God didn't predestine before the foundation of the world that dear Irkle would be saved and his irksome antagonists on these forums would have no chance. God in his foreknowledge may have known that Irkle would turn to Christ, but that's a complex issue that's outside the scope of this thread. Full 5-point Calvinists do, of course, believe in the sort of individual election you're talking about, but they are an increasingly rare breed.
Someone may have already mentioned this, but the more plausible (and certainly more intellectually and emotionally satisfying) explanation is that this is talking about "corporate election," not individual election. God decided before the foundation of the world that all of those who turned to Christ (i.e., the corporate body of Christ) would be saved. Much as I might like to think otherwise, God didn't predestine before the foundation of the world that dear Irkle would be saved and his irksome antagonists on these forums would have no chance. God in his foreknowledge may have known that Irkle would turn to Christ, but that's a complex issue that's outside the scope of this thread. Full 5-point Calvinists do, of course, believe in the sort of individual election you're talking about, but they are an increasingly rare breed.
What Jesus accomplished DID involve a corporate scope. It was for our entire species, NOT just specific individuals. That is why salvation is NOT an issue. We are all "saved as by fire" by what Jesus accomplished, period. Unfortunately, that means that any negative consequences of our failures to mature spiritually will be subject to God's refining fire to remove any dross that has not been repented.
"If you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them."
Unconditional reprobation is a hard truth to accept isnt it.
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