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Since you get it, how do you know you are one of the elect? What is the secret password or sign of your election?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
<crickets>
Yo, Brightfame!!
Okay. Anyone of you Elect who knows the answer or the secret password or sign of your election that God gave you so that you know you are among His elect can answer for Brightfame! Enquiring minds want to know!
Okay. Anyone of you Elect who knows the answer or the secret password or sign of your election that God gave you so that you know you are among His elect can answer for Brightfame! Enquiring minds want to know!
Yeah, God lets His elect know. There are diverse ways He can do that (1 Cor 12:4-6, Heb 2:1-4; note in the case of the latter, the word "them" in verse 4 was inserted by the KJV translators and actually undermines the point of the passage).
Luke 11:11-13:
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
I don't follow Calvin. I follow what the Bible very clearly teaches on the subject of election.
Does this sound like He offers salvation indiscriminately to all, which they can freely take or refuse, or rather gives it to whom He will and blinds the rest?
Mathew 13:10-15:
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Romans 9:15-18:
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Like most, you appeal to certain verses which you think support your view while ignoring those verses which refute you. Your beliefs are Calvinistic whether you acknowledge it or not. God desires that all men be saved as stated in 1 Tim. 2:4 and therefore sent Jesus to die for all so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life as per John 3:16. God is merciful to all. We all have volition and can accept or reject the offer of salvation. People can harden their own hearts when presented with the truth. It is in this manner that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. God knew that Pharoh would resist him and harden his own heart.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/61871380-post113.html
Yeah, God lets His elect know. There are diverse ways He can do that (1 Cor 12:4-6, Heb 2:1-4; note in the case of the latter, the word "them" in verse 4 was inserted by the KJV translators and actually undermines the point of the passage).
Luke 11:11-13:
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Thank you for answering, snj90. It gives me greater insight into your views and those who believe they are the elect. Tell me, snj90, do you recognize the Holy Spirit you say came to you from God as your sign in the following?
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
Is this the Holy Spirit that came to you or was it some other Spirit? I ask because that definitely is the Spirit that erased my atheism and eventually led me to Christ. Would that make me one of the elect?.
Like most, you appeal to certain verses which you think support your view while ignoring those verses which refute you. Your beliefs are Calvinistic whether you acknowledge it or not. God desires that all men be saved as stated in 1 Tim. 2:4 and therefore sent Jesus to die for all so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life as per John 3:16. God is merciful to all. We all have volition and can accept or reject the offer of salvation. People can harden their own hearts when presented with the truth. It is in this manner that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. God knew that Pharoh would resist him and harden his own heart.
There is also a layering and succession that happens,
problems happens trying to compare or treat everything the same without distinguishing the differences and purposes - its like the sun, campfires, candles, etc all have the same properties of light, heat, fire but they are not used for the same things, it depends on the situation
In Romans we are told the creation was deliberately subjected to vanity
Future Glory
Rom 8:18**For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19**For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20**For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21**Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22**For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Like most, you appeal to certain verses which you think support your view while ignoring those verses which refute you. Your beliefs are Calvinistic whether you acknowledge it or not. God desires that all men be saved as stated in 1 Tim. 2:4 and therefore sent Jesus to die for all so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life as per John 3:16. God is merciful to all. We all have volition and can accept or reject the offer of salvation. People can harden their own hearts when presented with the truth. It is in this manner that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. God knew that Pharoh would resist him and harden his own heart.
It's the free will position just takes a few verses out of context, like 1 Tim 2:4, the context of which is an exhortation of prayer for kings and those in authority (see the preceding three verses), so "all men" here means, essentially, all kinds of men. As for Pharaoh hardening his own heart, the scripture clearly and unambiguously says otherwise. God said He would harden Pharaoh's heart (Exo 7:3, 14:4). And Rom 9:18: "whom he will he hardeneth"
It's the free will position just takes a few verses out of context, like 1 Tim 2:4, the context of which is an exhortation of prayer for kings and those in authority (see the preceding three verses), so "all men" here means, essentially, all kinds of men. As for Pharaoh hardening his own heart, the scripture clearly and unambiguously says otherwise. God said He would harden Pharaoh's heart (Exo 7:3, 14:4). And Rom 9:18: "whom he will he hardeneth"
No, the scripture does not say otherwise. Read the passage. While God is said to harden Pharaoh's heart Pharaoh is also said to harden his own heart.
Jesus died for all men. Not just all kinds of men. As Paul said in 2 Cor. 5:14,
2 Cor. 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;
This means that if Jesus didn't die for all then all have not died. Really? All have not died? Because that is what you are arguing by claiming that Jesus didn't die for all men.
Also, in 2 Peter 3:9 Peter states that God does not wish that any perish. But you are arguing that God did not desire that all be saved and thus decided to let them perish. You anti-freewill argument is nonsense.
God loves the entire world, (including partialists )
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