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I think what you might be trying to say is: Christ in us is liberty. For, all creation, including those upon the earth, are already "in Christ", now. This might sound odd to some, but here are some scriptures to support this:
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Act 17:28 for in Him we live, and move, and are; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring.
Don't be ridiculous. To be in Christ means to be sanctified, or set apart. It's true that all things were created by Him and for Him, and everything is His. As it's written (Psalm 24:1), the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. And as it's also written, the cattle upon a thousand hills are His. Yet, to be "His" is different when used in the sense of being His sanctified, or set-apart, slave. Paul wrote in Romans 8:9 that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. There's no conflict with Psalm 24:1. This has to do with the distinction between what is holy and what is common.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
No; God is definitely about freedom. Those who are in Christ are free to do what might place them outside the confines of what it means to be a slave of Christ. They are slaves by choice. That is what a bondservant is.
No, a slave is owned property. The slave is the money of his master (Exo 21:21). As it's written, loud and clear, ye are not your own, and ye are bought with a price (1 Cor 6:19-20). This is unambiguous in the Greek, where "doulos" refers to a slave who is the property of his master. Anyone who is in Christ is NOT his own! A slave of Jesus Christ is not free to leave his Master, and He will surely save every last one (John 10:27-29). Moreover, as Paul wrote, he is a prisoner of Jesus Christ (Philemon 1:1). This is not merely a reference to his worldly incarceration and God's sovereignty behind that. If understood spiritually, it is in accordance with the doctrine I have set forth. (Moreover, even the very epistle of Philemon, about a runaway slave, is a spiritual picture of salvation in Jesus Christ. Note also, "the bonds of the gospel" - Phn 1:13.)
Ergo, the scripture exhorts the church to "Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body." (Heb 13:3) The "body" here is the body of Christ (and adversity has to do with the enmity put between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent - Gen 3:15). So just as surely as the church is the body of Christ, so too are its member "in bonds" just as any prisoner, who is obviously not free to leave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
Those who are slaves of righteousness have been set free from sin. You have the freedom, as a slave of righteousness, to commit sin; however, that may be your last free act; because "he who commits sin is the servant of sin" (John 8:34)
Just as illustrated in my response to the previous poster, there are difference ways in which "sin" is used in the Bible (same with the term "salvation" or "save").
1 John 3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
The definition of sin is to fall short of the glory of God (see: Rom 3:23). In the sense in which John is using it here, it means that one cannot fall from the glory of God that is in Jesus Christ. It is written, "the woman is the glory of the man" (1 Cor 11:7). Because the church is the bride of Christ. And because, as I have said, He will surely save every last one of His elect, it is impossible to fall short of that ultimate glory. But, in time, it is certainly possible for a saint to sin and fall short of the glory of God, by not walking in Christ properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
The kjv is never in error as concerning doctrine.
While it's a better translation than most modern ones, it is gravely in error as it concerns its erroneous translation of "doulos" to "servant" rather than "slave." This is no trifling matter, as this concerns the very name of God, and the doctrine which is according to godliness (1 Tim 6:1-3). I would remind you that salvation is available to all who call upon the name of the Lord (Joel 2:32), so it would behoove one to learn what the scriptures actually say about the name of God.
Don't be ridiculous. To be in Christ means to be sanctified, or set apart. It's true that all things were created by Him and for Him, and everything is His. As it's written (Psalm 24:1), the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. And as it's also written, the cattle upon a thousand hills are His. Yet, to be "His" is different when used in the sense of being His sanctified, or set-apart, slave. Paul wrote in Romans 8:9 that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. There's no conflict with Psalm 24:1. This has to do with the distinction between what is holy and what is common.
I don't think I was being ridiculous though. What I think you're overlooking are the very real benefits to all of humanity, believers as well as unbelievers alike, of their being created "in Christ", where all live, move and have their being, as scripture clearly states.
This truth speaks to the very fact of how God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself not imputing their trespasses to them (2Co 5:19, Col 1:20). And, in a very real sense, to be "in Christ" does mean to be sanctified, even to those in unbelief who are "in Christ" and united to Him objectively by way of creation, but are, as yet, not sanctified subjectively by the Holy Spirit (1Co 6:11). Paul gives a good example of how this occurs when speaking of an unbelieving spouse having been sanctified by the believing spouse:
1Co 7:14 for the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife hath been sanctified in the husband; otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
In a very real sense the faith of Christ sanctifies the unbeliever "in Him".
Now, I'm going to tell you something you will think is ridiculous: All of humanity, this includes both believers subjectively and unbelievers objectively, have been, by the mere fact of being "in Christ", forgiven of their sins (2Co 5:19), declared righteous, that is justified (Rom 3:24, Rom 5:18), reconciled (Col 1:20) as well as sanctified by Christ's faith and faithfulness in His death and resurrection for them (Joh 3:35, Joh 17:2, Joh 4:42, 1Jo 2:2, 1Jo 4:14, 1Ti 2:6, and many more).
I don't really expect you to believe what I just put forth. The reformed church's do not teach it in their confessions of faith. However, I will say that Christ's atonement was limited to the elect "in Him", in that it was limited to the "spirit" of the soul. The spirit of the soul being elect in Christ. The carnal nature, the old man of the flesh being passed by or reprobated to death, having been crucified with Christ (Rom 6:6) already. Unbelievers simply have yet to be born from above to realize and experience what Christ has accomplished for them. However, in time, all will (1Ti 2:6).
I don't think I was being ridiculous though. What I think you're overlooking are the very real benefits to all of humanity, believers as well as unbelievers alike, of their being created "in Christ", where all live, move and have their being, as scripture clearly states.
This truth speaks to the very fact of how God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself not imputing their trespasses to them (2Co 5:19, Col 1:20). And, in a very real sense, to be "in Christ" does mean to be sanctified, even to those in unbelief who are "in Christ" and united to Him objectively by way of creation, but are, as yet, not sanctified subjectively by the Holy Spirit (1Co 6:11). Paul gives a good example of how this occurs when speaking of an unbelieving spouse having been sanctified by the believing spouse:
1Co 7:14 for the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife hath been sanctified in the husband; otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
In a very real sense the faith of Christ sanctifies the unbeliever "in Him".
Now, I'm going to tell you something you will think is ridiculous: All of humanity, this includes both believers subjectively and unbelievers objectively, have been, by the mere fact of being "in Christ", forgiven of their sins (2Co 5:19), declared righteous, that is justified (Rom 3:24, Rom 5:18), reconciled (Col 1:20) as well as sanctified by Christ's faith and faithfulness in His death and resurrection for them (Joh 3:35, Joh 17:2, Joh 4:42, 1Jo 2:2, 1Jo 4:14, 1Ti 2:6, and many more).
I don't really expect you to believe what I just put forth. The reformed church's do not teach it in their confessions of faith. However, I will say that Christ's atonement was limited to the elect "in Him", in that it was limited to the "spirit" of the soul. The spirit of the soul being elect in Christ. The carnal nature, the old man of the flesh being passed by or reprobated to death, having been crucified with Christ (Rom 6:6) already. Unbelievers simply have yet to be born from above to realize and experience what Christ has accomplished for them. However, in time, all will (1Ti 2:6).
amen brother, I usually say they have not yet been woken up to the fact that the light is in them.
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