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Hannibal Flavius, I believe that at one point you tried to peg me as the lawless one and then at another point you complained that I am the most legalistic person that you have ever seen.
If Salvation is by Grace, which it is, then its by Election, for you cant have one without the other. Paul writes, in speaking about election in the 11th of Romans these words Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Paul is writing about Salvation amongst the jews, though it applies to all men, that some jews will be saved because they are part of Gods election of grace, and if you add to that, then it disqualifies as being by grace.
Also for it, Salvation, to be by Grace, it can and does only apply to a remnant, as here in this context it applies to only a remnant of jews out of national Israel, but it also must apply to only a remnant out of the gentiles as Per Acts 15:14-17
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Notice Vs 14, God visits the Gentiles only to take out of them a People for Salvation, that's the remnant out from among the gentile nations, an election of grace.
The word take is the greek word
lambanó and means to:
I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.
to take, equivalent to to choose, select:
That's Election, to select from the whole, to choose from the whole, that's a remnant !
Also those so chosen, chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, are in time layed hold of by God in Christ​
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Remember Paul said of himself how Christ laid hold of him Phil 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
That word apprehended, its the same word and can be read:
I was laid hold of !
The remnant, whether of from amongst the jews, or the gentiles will be laid hold of by Christ in time, and its all of Grace, the Election of Grace, which equates to Salvation by Grace. If we deny Particular discriminating Grace in Salvation applied only to a remnant, not all without exception, then by default we deny Salvation by Grace !
Balderdash! Get over yourself. There is nothing special about you and you have not been chosen over anyone else! God became human as Jesus to bring His Holy Spirit to His human consciousness because none of us have the ability to achieve anything close to it in our human consciousnesses. Jesus perfected His human consciousness to equal God's Holy Spirit connecting all human consciousness to God permanently. That is how He is the only Way to God, not because of anything we do or believe about Him. He is the ONLY human consciousness connected directly to God.
His perfected human consciousness was "born again" as Spirit upon His death making the Comforter (Holy Spirit) available to us all within our human consciousnesses to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts" It is the Grace of His perfected human consciousness that provides the cover for our imperfections and there are no conditions placed on it. It automatically applies to us all.
Balderdash! Get over yourself. There is nothing special about you and you have not been chosen over anyone else! God became human as Jesus to bring His Holy Spirit to His human consciousness because none of us have the ability to achieve anything close to it in our human consciousnesses. Jesus perfected His human consciousness to equal God's Holy Spirit connecting all human consciousness to God permanently. That is how He is the only Way to God, not because of anything we do or believe about Him. He is the ONLY human consciousness connected directly to God.
His perfected human consciousness was "born again" as Spirit upon His death making the Comforter (Holy Spirit) available to us all within our human consciousnesses to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts" It is the Grace of His perfected human consciousness that provides the cover for our imperfections and there are no conditions placed on it. It automatically applies to us all.
The opinion of a child of wrath NOT a child of agape love. The OT beliefs about God were WRONG, JBF. Jesus revealed the TRUTH about God on the Cross. but our primitive ancestors misunderstood it using their automatic belief in the wrath of God.
Hannibal Flavius, I believe that at one point you tried to peg me as the lawless one and then at another point you complained that I am the most legalistic person that you have ever seen.
Now, which one is it?
I believe you could define that as being a hypocrite.
The opinion of a child of wrath NOT a child of agape love. The OT beliefs about God were WRONG, JBF. Jesus revealed the TRUTH about God on the Cross. but our primitive ancestors misunderstood it using their automatic belief in the wrath of God.
No, the OT beliefs about God were not wrong.
The Spirit of Christ was in the Old Testament prophets when they wrote down their testimonies (1 Peter 1:11).
The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of truth (Ephesians 4:4, John 14:17, 15:26, 16:13, 1 John 4:6).
So, the Old Testament prophets could not have been promoting lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
I believe you could define that as being a hypocrite.
I'm not going so far as to call Hannibal Flavius a hypocrite.
I would quote the following, however.
Luk 7:31, And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luk 7:32, They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
How did Paul go from being of the tribe of Benjamin to becoming a member of the tribe of Judah?
Benjamin was the only tribe contained in both kingdoms, and this is for very good reason because Judah had given his life for Benjamin, and little Benjamin was the only true brother of Joseph by the same mother, and the two kingdoms are Joseph and David.
David built Jerusalem in Benjamin BETWEEN the two kingdoms.
Psalms 80
Benjamin in Israel, not Judah.
To the chief Musician upon ShoshannimEduth, A Psalm of Asaph. Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.
The 12 tribes have always been split in two, the reason for this is the blessings of Jacob in Genesis 49 favors Joseph and David to be the two tribes Messiah would come from, and those two were blessed above the others.
You would either lean to Joseph or Judah.
Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin contained within Israel, a completely separate nation, and when he came back to the ways of God in Jerusalem, he came as the prodigal.
That is what Paul is explaining, his own adoption being one of those 7000 elect of Israel, not Judah. Paul became a Jew. Jesus had chosen Paul for this reason, he was fulfilling prophesy.
And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
Benjamin is a unique tribe, contained within both kingdoms and taken from all tribes.
Revelation speaks about a name that only some would know, that name is Benjamin.
Whether Jew or Israeli, God is going to demand that you produce little Benjamin before you can see his face.
He is the only true brother Joseph, his mother dies in childbirth, and his mother is the beloved mother, the only true beloved, and from Benjamin came the beloved Jonathon, and the beloved John who loved Jesus..
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