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Old 09-07-2021, 05:59 PM
 
Location: california
7,322 posts, read 6,921,731 times
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John 3;16,17,18.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son that who so ever believeth in Him should not parish but have everlasting life. He that believeth is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God." Jesus said it, that should settle it.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:04 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,853 posts, read 6,311,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
God created the human race as pure and sinless. Why would you think that God made us sinners?
Aren't you saying we are born that way? If so, I had no control of that and God allowed me to be born that way.

How do you feel knowing that people's spirits will be kept alive for the purpose of never-ending torture? Are you only concerned with your own suffering?
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,138 posts, read 10,431,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Oh, I get it. You have such a low opinion of God's creation that the default is we deserve pain, sorrow, death and never-ending torture and it's actually out of God's goodness that He chooses to spare even a few. That doesn't sound good to me. We wouldn't even let another human being get away with that. If you stood there and watched while a child was being beaten and did nothing I'd think you a dick. You can get away with saying that God doesn't interfere with the world but the afterlife? All those children murdered in the holocaust and God lets them slip into hell?
I nominate this as post of the year, it really, most kindly tickled me, thanks.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You know that you and I believe some drastically different things.
Yes, we absolutely do, but that doesn't mean you're a believer and I'm not. You believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior and the author of your salvation. So do I. Why can't you accept that, despite our differences, we also have some very significant things in common?
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
There is a difference between thinking someone has it wrong and thinking someone has it so wrong they should be tortured for eternity. I might think you have it wrong but I don't believe you should be punished for that even if I believed it possible.
And the difference doesn't even seem to be especially complicated. Except that it is completely baffling to some people.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:29 PM
 
63,785 posts, read 40,053,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
According to the doctrine we are born that way. So to say we deserve punishment for being exactly what He created us to seems weird. He could have easily just made us born sinless. He is responsible for all of that not us. Shouldn't everyone go to hell if they are sinners? Why does believing the right things get you off the hook?
Because that is all he is willing to be responsible for and he doesn't even think he is. He thinks God chose him to believe that nonsense.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
All of us deserve punishment for our sin in eternal hell.
Why? Let's leave me out of it entirely, but what do you think you have personally done that is deserving of punishment that never, ever ends? I would really like to know, because despite our differences, I can't imagine that you've ever done anything quite so vile that you deserve to be punished forever.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,138 posts, read 10,431,246 times
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
God created the human race as pure and sinless. Why would you think that God made us sinners?
The great confusion over the law is what its purpose is, and its purpose is to teach mercy, love, hope and realization.

That realization is that in one's study of the law, it convicts all of us wholley, it is redundant in showing human failure to the point that our guilt convicts our conscience in such a way as to feel so much shame that we should not EVER judge anyone.

The law teaches mercy, and we are taught this over and over, that the law comes down to mercy, and loving others enough to not judge them because we know just how found wanting we are.

There was a man cursing king David and David's royal guards were about to kill the man for his audacity to even speak to the king.

David said," Meh, just let him curse, maybe in doing so, my own sins might be given a beeak."

That is the essence of the law, the realization that EVERY HUMAN deserves death so much so that it makes them live in mercy instead of judgement.


Romans said, " O what a wretched man I am, I want to do good, but I do bad instead, who will save me from this body of death and evil?



It says that although he sins, it is no longer him doing it.


Roman's is describing a person as two people.



Romans 7


14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.




Who is sinning?

The author of Romans is telling you that he wants to do good, but he sins instead.


Who and what is the inner man THAT CANNOT SIN?



Who and what is the outer man who ALWAYS SINS?



Do you think that you are going to heaven because you didnt sin as much as others?
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:43 PM
 
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I know that things I've done deserve everlasting punishment.

But we do not need to dredge them up before the Father because they are underneath the blood.

And therefore I will not face everlasting punishment because Jesus took the penalty for my sins.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:47 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,837,092 times
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Romans 7:14-25 is Paul's use of the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION in order to define who is carnal.

He is being all things to all men in order that by all means he might save some. He becomes as weak to those who are weak, in the passage (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

That Paul himself is not carnal is evident in that he is at that moment penning holy scripture.

It should be clear, in 2 Peter 1:21, that those who produce holy scripture can only be holy men of God.

Also, Romans 7:14-25 ought to be read with Romans 6:6 in mind. verse 24 refers directly back to Romans 6:6; and if you read each verse in the passage with the verse in mind, I believe that anyone will see Romans 7:14-25 in a different light.
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