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Man must enter into covenant to have his sins washed clean.
So you are saying the covenant expands and shrinks to accommodate new converts? I thought you believed the number of saved is predestined?
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The scriptures teach this, and this only. Man is not saved, while he professes unbelief in Christ. He is saved upon belief in Christ.
Saved from what?
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His sins were paid for, but man must acknowledge who is his savior to have those sins washed clean. Why is this so difficult?
So his sins are paid but he retains them because they are still dirty? If I paid for sins to be removed and they still counted... I'd be pissed. Jesus gave his life to pay for the sins of the world and you say they are paid for but still count against him?
Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
How many sins are still committed under the first covenant? Are you saying that those not in the new are still under the old? The old was only Israel... yet you say the new is only Israel.. So what is so confusing for you?
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God is the savior of all mankind, but it is strictly neccessary for mankind to believe in Christ to be saved - an action in part of the man.
I have shown you time and again that you are going against scripture here.
Romans 9:15-16 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
Yet you tell me it is an action on man's part that is necessary. That is totally opposite of what scripture teaches.
If you look hard at what you are saying it goes like this:
Christ paid for sin.
BUT -- they are not truly paid for until a person believes.
Christ only paid for the sin of believers.
and you seem to think that is scriptural? NICE!
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One more verse taken away from the UR paradigm.....any more? It appears that these simple verses are too complex for the UR paradigm.
I edited your post so you and others can see the absurdities.... I don't mean to be harsh but if I said those things I would be ashamed because it is so glaringly obvious it goes against scripture. What you are showing here is not a new and better covenant but the same old one that didn't save from sin.
1 Tim 4 only speaks of the blessings that are bestowed on the unrighteous BECAUSE OF THE RIGHTEOUS. God is the savior of all mankind, but it is strictly neccessary for mankind to believe in Christ to be saved - an action in part of the man. God is the only God, Christ is the only savior, whether mankind believes or not, that is the message here,
This is where your logic (or lack thereof) breaks down. As long as there is only ONE God and ONE Savior who mediates our relationship with God (THERE IS ONLY ONE REALITY) . . . HOW can anyone who "loves God and each other" be doing anything WRONG . . . whatever they claim to believe or not believe???? They are loving the ONLY God and Savior that there IS and following His commandments!!!
whatever they claim to believe or not believe???? They are loving the ONLY God and Savior that there IS and following His commandments!!!
Mystic,
Your philosophy, because that is what it is, not a theology, doesn't line up with the scriptures at all. What you present here, is not Biblical in any way.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Salvation in a nutshell. Deal with it, or don't.
You have been presented with the gospel and the prerequesite for salvation.
Your philosophy, because that is what it is, not a theology, doesn't line up with the scriptures at all. What you present here, is not Biblical in any way.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Salvation in a nutshell. Deal with it, or don't.
You have been presented with the gospel and the prerequesite for salvation.
Sciotamicks,
You and so many others have allowed Satan to deceive you into taking your eyes off the prize . . . God. We are here for a real purpose and it is entirely related to REALITY, period . . . not the imaginings or beliefs of human beings. You have taken that which is "useful" for instruction and turned it into a written Idol that must be worshiped and believed as the purpose of your existence . . . leaving God where??? We are to focus on "LOVING GOD AND EACH OTHER" in the real world to achieve a real purpose . . . not spend our time "believing specific interpretations of written words . . . the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . that are only supposed to guide our understanding and give us hope . . . NOT dominate our focus. Jesus is unambiguous . . . "love God and each other" . . . that is our purpose. Wake up from your "Belief" focus and put your eye back on the prize . . . God . . . there is ONLY ONE to worry about.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Salvation in a nutshell. Deal with it, or don't.
You have been presented with the gospel and the prerequesite for salvation.
Do you see this confession and believing being performed by a sinner in the flesh "in order to be saved" or by a believer in the Spirit?
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
I still don't see how I can point out to you that none of man's actions or desires affect God's mercy and you still want to say that men have to believe.
Like I said before.. if you are trying to say this is the New and better covenant... it is funny how much it resembles the ritualistic man appeasing God type just like the old covenant that could not remove sin. What if the next day you decided not to believe? Then are you unsaved or saved? That would create a need to bring another sacrifice to God just like in the OC... right?
Yet there are no more sacrifices for sin.. therefore who is saved is not dependent on what man does but what God does and God desires all to be saved .. so when Jesus died he died for ALL MANKIND and all mankind are saved..
Now all you have to do is put away the unbeliever prejudices you have and love your neighbor as yourself.
That is the freedom of the gospel.
Romans 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
sciotamicks - It's time to come clean my friend. Which is it for you. Did you start in your good ol' flesh and turn it into something better, or were you first regenerated with a new heart that received the Spirit through faith?
Much is made out of 1 Tim 4:10 by the Universalist who claims that Jesus wil redeem all people whether or not they accept or reject Christ as Savior here on earth. Eventually, UR says, all people will repent (either here or in the after-life, in the Lake of Fire) and come to a saving relationship with God, purified of their sins. 1 Tim 4:10 is used as proof for this premise, among many others that are continously removed from their contextual surroundings. Unfortunately, the verse does not prove what the Universalists hope it does. Can God be called the Savior of all men and yet not redeem all? Yes, He can.
All people are, by nature, born under wrath - Eph 2:3, and should go to hell. Why? Because God is holy and we are sinners. Yet, we have hope in Christ. The Christian is saved by faith Eph 2:8 and will join the Lord in heaven. But, the unbeliever is under judgment. John 3:18 says, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".
Why does God not simply destroy them as is His right?
Because of the Christians!
Because God is being patient with the unbeliever, allowing them to enjoy the blessings of life in this world without the rightful condemnation of God falling upon them. This is what the Bible states:
Rom 9:22-23What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
As you can see here, God is patient with the unregenerate rebel. They receive a delayed judgment because of God's love for the believer. In this sense, Jesus is the Savior of the world because He holds back His judging hand from all who rightly and immediately deserve it. Judgment is delayed. This is a blessing received from God upon the unbeliever. In fact, God often blesses the unbelieving rebel because of the presence of a believer.
Gen 39:5 And it came about that from the time he made him overseer in his house, and over all that he owned, the Lord blessed the Egyptian’s house on account of Joseph; thus the Lord’s blessing was upon all that he owned, in the house and in the field
Consider also Matt 13:24-30 and the parable of the wheat and the tares. In it Jesus compares the world to a field. He later interprets it by stating that "the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one, - Matt 13:38
Yet in Matt 13:20-30 Jesus states that the tares are not dealt with right away because the wheat is there among them. "But he said, ‘No; lest while you are gathering up the tares, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest".
So, can it be said that the tares were saved from judgment? Yes...temporarily. The unbeliever enjoys a delayed judgment. But with the Christian, Jesus is especially their Savior and judgment is permanently removed from them.
Another way in which Jesus is the savior of all men is that He has made all people saveable. Without Jesus' sacrifice, none could ever be saved. Since Jesus, who is the word made flesh John 1:1, 14 atoned for sin, all people are now redeemable. He is the Savior of all, but especially of believers.
That is, all are now redeemable due to the sacrifice of Christ, but redemption is specifically applied to those who trust in Christ.
1 Tim 4:10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1 Tim 4:10 is referring to God in particular and not necessarily Jesus in particular. Does the title "God" include Jesus? Of course, since Jesus is God in flesh Col 2:9, the Savior. God, is called Savior in Psalm 106:21; Isaaih 43:3; Luke 1:47; 1 Tim 1:1;2:3; Titus 1:3-4; and Titus 2:10.
It is obvious that the term refers to God in the generic sense of being the Savior of all men since He brings salvation to all though it is not accepted by all. This is why it says that God (not Jesus) is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. How is it especially to believers? Simple. It is especially and specifically realized only by those who are believers.
Furthermore, only Jesus is the mediator between God and men - 1 Tim 2:5 and He mediates only between the saved and God. He does not mediate His atoning work for the unredeemed.
His being Savior is generic for all, but specific for the saved.
Therefore, this verse does not necessitate that all will be redeemed.
Like i said...there is a sense of Temporal Judgement and Eternal Judgement throughout Scripture...
Much is made out of 1 Tim 4:10 by the Universalist who claims that Jesus wil redeem all people whether or not they accept or reject Christ as Savior here on earth. Eventually, UR says, all people will repent (either here or in the after-life, in the Lake of Fire) and come to a saving relationship with God, purified of their sins. 1 Tim 4:10 is used as proof for this premise, among many others that are continously removed from their contextual surroundings. Unfortunately, the verse does not prove what the Universalists hope it does. Can God be called the Savior of all men and yet not redeem all? Yes, He can.
All people are, by nature, born under wrath - Eph 2:3, and should go to hell. Why? Because God is holy and we are sinners. Yet, we have hope in Christ. The Christian is saved by faith Eph 2:8 and will join the Lord in heaven. But, the unbeliever is under judgment. John 3:18 says, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".
Why does God not simply destroy them as is His right?
Because of the Christians!
Because God is being patient with the unbeliever, allowing them to enjoy the blessings of life in this world without the rightful condemnation of God falling upon them. This is what the Bible states:
Rom 9:22-23What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
As you can see here, God is patient with the unregenerate rebel. They receive a delayed judgment because of God's love for the believer. In this sense, Jesus is the Savior of the world because He holds back His judging hand from all who rightly and immediately deserve it. Judgment is delayed. This is a blessing received from God upon the unbeliever. In fact, God often blesses the unbelieving rebel because of the presence of a believer.
Gen 39:5 And it came about that from the time he made him overseer in his house, and over all that he owned, the Lord blessed the Egyptian’s house on account of Joseph; thus the Lord’s blessing was upon all that he owned, in the house and in the field
Consider also Matt 13:24-30 and the parable of the wheat and the tares. In it Jesus compares the world to a field. He later interprets it by stating that "the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one, - Matt 13:38
Yet in Matt 13:20-30 Jesus states that the tares are not dealt with right away because the wheat is there among them. "But he said, ‘No; lest while you are gathering up the tares, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest".
So, can it be said that the tares were saved from judgment? Yes...temporarily. The unbeliever enjoys a delayed judgment. But with the Christian, Jesus is especially their Savior and judgment is permanently removed from them.
Another way in which Jesus is the savior of all men is that He has made all people saveable. Without Jesus' sacrifice, none could ever be saved. Since Jesus, who is the word made flesh John 1:1, 14 atoned for sin, all people are now redeemable. He is the Savior of all, but especially of believers.
That is, all are now redeemable due to the sacrifice of Christ, but redemption is specifically applied to those who trust in Christ.
1 Tim 4:10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1 Tim 4:10 is referring to God in particular and not necessarily Jesus in particular. Does the title "God" include Jesus? Of course, since Jesus is God in flesh Col 2:9, the Savior. God, is called Savior in Psalm 106:21; Isaaih 43:3; Luke 1:47; 1 Tim 1:1;2:3; Titus 1:3-4; and Titus 2:10.
It is obvious that the term refers to God in the generic sense of being the Savior of all men since He brings salvation to all though it is not accepted by all. This is why it says that God (not Jesus) is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. How is it especially to believers? Simple. It is especially and specifically realized only by those who are believers.
Furthermore, only Jesus is the mediator between God and men - 1 Tim 2:5 and He mediates only between the saved and God. He does not mediate His atoning work for the unredeemed.
His being Savior is generic for all, but specific for the saved.
Therefore, this verse does not necessitate that all will be redeemed.
Very good deductive reasoning there...
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