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So the EU did give the Ukraine a deadline in terms of joining the EU, and that led to a decision to reject the offer, and that didn't sit well with the EU, the US, and Canada, and suddenly the date to join was not so fast and fixed, so these countries supported protests and continued to support the protest after the leader of the Ukraine fled the country ... only to discover that Russian troops stood at every door.
John Kerry should have met with Putin rather than the new Ukraine leader ... in terms of equal rank and the big picture.
'A few days ago Yanukovych was compared in a leading German newspaper with Gaddafi. Everyone knows that Yanukovych was elected just three years ago the democratically elected President of the Ukraine."
Obama has no concept of affairs in Ukraine. In my opinion, Russia should not lead any negotiations with the United States. Russia has priority, as Ukraine borders with Russia and it threatens Russia's national security. US is not even has the right word for it. I do not think that the EU wants Ukraine. If so then let the EU will issue a check for Ukraine or USA. But this is not and never will be. The EU has allocated $ 10 billion for Greece, after a further 10 billion for simple reforms in the country. In Ukraine, it is necessary not only to make reforms, but also much more, including to pay debts that it should in February for gas to Russia. Ukrainian production is unprofitable, if Russia does not supply gas and oil at low rates. Russia will not deliver. Only naive and stupid people think that they will just feed. Ukraine is unable to feed themselves.
Read the latest interview Milosevic: "Russian I now appeal to all the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian citizens in the Balkans also consider Russian. Look at us and remember - you will do the same when you disunite (divide) and give slack. West - Chain mad dog clutched in your throat. Brothers, remember the fate of Yugoslavia, do not let you do the same! "many wanted to join, and then defend Yugoslavia, but the government did not consider it necessary. U.S. terror in the world should end once and for all.
I was wondering whether it was time to give back the Nobel Peace Prize ... not that it's possible, but still worth a second thought.
The EU should not have given a deadline for the Ukraine to join, as that forced the issue. Before the protests, media stations were thriving. Today, all media stations have all been closed and employees sent to homes that are surrounded by Russian troops. It was a huge mistake from the West to support an uprising and overthrow of a democratically elected government. What's the next move ... democracy should be over thrown from time to time?
Canada us usually more moderate. In this case, like a dirty shirt, boldly stepping into the arena with a strong statement. Perhaps it's a statement towards moderation.
I'm unsure whether I have the correct understanding of what is going on in the Ukraine. Perhaps someone that has followed the events more closely can help me understand. This is how it looks to me ...
I understand that the Ukraine govt. had to make a decision whether to join the EU. Was this a question put to the Ukraine by the EU with some sort of deadline, or is this something that grew from within the country and the request to join the EU was an internal matter? I understand that this conflict is related to that decision.
The whole thing was never about membership. The EU and Ukraine wanted an Association Agreement and a FTA. Something we already have with a couple of other nations, like South Africa, Turkey or Chile.
Personally, I don't think it's plausible that the Ukraine will join the Union within the next 15 years...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke
When this began, what I saw was civil unrest in the Ukraine. A group of peaceful protesters were objecting to the decision until the democratically elected President fled the country (is it President or Prime Minister?). If a democratically elected leader in Germany or England had to flee the country, the US, Canada, France should stand behind the democratically elected leader (esp: if Democracy is their religion), yet in this case, the opposite is happening. Why would these countries support the overthrow of democracy? Did they not like the decision to not join the EU?
Policy brutality, protestors got shot and at times abducted by the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke
How much of this is related to access to the Black Sea? What about the pipelines running through the Ukraine, from Russia to Germany? Is that what the West wants to control ... European pipelines?
Not being dependent on a person like Putin is probably part of the bigger picture, yes. I doubt that was the main motive during the Maidan protests, though.
The Black Sea Fleet? I don't think that's a big issue for the EU, it seems to be one for the US, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke
How is this going to end? Will the US accept that not everything is negotiable, that Russia will keep control of pipelines in the Ukraine, that the US should not interfere. The leader in the Ukraine was elected with democracy, right?
The day of the referendum will be decisive. I think they're going to start shooting on this very day. I think that neither a member of the EU, nor the US will interfere directly.
Your country is feeding almost all the EU. What do you think, you want to feed another country by Germany? In what situation in Greece, Romania, Spain, Italy today? Ukraine will also. I very much doubt it.
That's complete bullsh*t and you know it... The GNPs of Italy, Germany, France and the UK are all bigger than the one from Russia. So, according to you there must be a famine raging through your country... Heck, Russia's GNP is only three times bigger than the one from Austria... And I'm living in a freaking dwarf nation...
Read the latest interview Milosevic: "Russian I now appeal to all the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian citizens in the Balkans also consider Russian. Look at us and remember - you will do the same when you disunite (divide) and give slack. West - Chain mad dog clutched in your throat. Brothers, remember the fate of Yugoslavia, do not let you do the same! "many wanted to join, and then defend Yugoslavia, but the government did not consider it necessary. U.S. terror in the world should end once and for all.
There is a Most Powerful Nation in the World mentality in the US media. When it comes to debt, the US lost its triple AAA rating because there was squabbling between their two political parties, the banks collapsed, and Detroit declared bankruptcy.
Shouldn't the US should have no comment on: youth protests to overthrow a democratically elected President, except to support democracy. If protesters did not agree with the elected decision to not join the EU, then they should have promoted that position in the next democratic election.
Putin said something, but I can't find the whole exact text.
Maybe one of the Russian speakers has a link.
I'm particularly interested, whether he (or other Kremlin sources)
addresses the arguments of the experts who say it's illegal.
“Putin stressed, in particular, that the steps taken by the legitimate government
in Crimea are based on the international law and are intended to defend the
legitimate interests of Crimean residents,”
[ the steps are based on it ? ]
Putin: Russia cannot ignore calls for help and it acts accordingly, in full compliance with international law,
Obama: Russia’s actions are in violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity
Obama: March 16 vote would violate international law.
Putin: I support it. The steps taken by the legitimate leadership of Crimea are based
on the norms of international law and aim to ensure the legal interests of the population
of the peninsula
----------------------------------------------
I'm still curious whether this is all translated correctly or whether Putin refers
to some moral, unwritten "law" rather than the exact juristical terms.
What Court would decide this, what judge's opinion would Putin accept ?
(he graduated from international law at Leningrad university)
--------edit--------------
found this: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinio...ty/495785.html
Too long. Some people will come to the conlusion that the EU betrayed them. It was an ideological choice for them, not the matter of business.
But at least the EU now is ready to give them some facilities.
I know that most people will be disappointed. But it's unlikely considering the economic and political situation in both the Ukraine and the EU. And that was pretty obvious even before the protests.
Aksenov is the legitimate government, which was appointed as the legitimate government Yakunovicha. Yakunochich a legitimate government. Unlike those terrorists. Who appointed those who today in Kiev? As for the equipment of the soldiers. I already answered this question before. Do you think the US will help the terrorist, and Russia is not? Russian machinery. A little patience. Today, however, people from all over Russia are involved in the collection and delivery of care for residents of Ukraine. You better be more worried about the soldiers who shoot at civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. I do not see that on such mass activists among you, and the media about it.
and example of propaganda in operations....)
To talk about legitimity of government, study the Ukrainian laws at first. Higher power in Ukraine now -parlament, he can appoint a government plenty of voices. Yanukovych eloped, it was 48 hours for him, to sign laws, he did not go to Ukraine. Therefore there MUST be power, legitimate, from parliament.Otherwise Ukraine would be fully anarchic, and it is an end.
Aksenov is a doll of Moscow, he took parliament of Crimea by force, now there 30000 soldiery people from Russia and about 10000 Russians which arrived specially for provocations...It is a not ligitimate government, and a referendum also is not acknowledged. Our laws do not allow to conduct him only in Crimea, and Aksenov got power by automats. An affirmative vote him passed by force. In reply he will get force also.
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