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Here is a problem though - even if the Ukrainian aborigines will be dying in droves, deprived of their land ( since the sale of land to foreign corporations is one of the conditions of "integration,") or because their country-side will be subjected to a shale drilling, which yet again will destroy the livelihood of Ukrainians ( Eastern Ukrainians in particular,) the point is - Ukraine is still primarily an agricultural country, and always has been, because of its luscious soil. It doesn't have oil or gas, unlike Russia.
So where will all this agriculture produce go, if Russian market is closed for it?
It's not like EU doesn't have enough of its own produce and its own agricultural producers to worry about.
Yeah like Ukrainians don't mind being literally killed right now in the East by Russian soldiers stealing their land. Better to worry about the conspiracy theories made up by Russian propaganda machine. How do you like that shale gas btw, 10 years ago I heard that Gazprom was going to rule the world? LOL
Russia was never a market for Ukrainian agricultural exports. So its "closure" doesn't affect Ukraine at all. Russia is a competitor for the same kinds of exports. As for grain exports, they go to the same places they went before: Turkey, Middle East and North Africa.
Ukraine has access to a much larger market in the EU than Russia was. 4 times the # of people, 8 times the GDP. Russia's only response is to flood the minds of aging Russian TV watchers that somehow Ukraine will get the short end of the economic stick with a free trade agreement with the EU. Watch what happens in reality...
Why don't you understand that there is no such thing as unanimous "Ukraine" that "doesn't want to belong to Russia any longer?" Why do you think that this puppet government in Kiev is talking on behalf of *all* Ukraine?
You need to understand that in spite of all the actions on governmental level, the ties between PEOPLE are not completely broken, and the information goes back and forth through family ties and social media.
So from what Ukrainians are describing as far as "Europeasation" of their country goes, it sound all too familiar to Russians, the kind of process they went through back in the nineties, when neo-liberals took over their economy and their society, with the help of American "economists" as I've said many times. And the memories of it are still painful.
So when Putin (as corporate pr*ck as he is,) is all about clinging to Ukraine because of the *loss of economic opportunities* with his planned "no custom ( free trade) zone," the Russians who go to fight to Donbass, go there for a different reason. They see very clear what Americans ( with the help of EU) are trying to accomplish all over again, and they don't like it a bit.
Why do you think that Ukrainians will not be able to find jobs in the EU? By extension, what opportunities does Russia provide that can't be found in the EU?
There is no unanimous anything. Of course people in a country are going to disagree on major issues. While not everyone in Ukraine wants to join the EU, there are a number of people who do. Maybe if you stopped blaming the US for everything that you disliked you would see that the problems faced by Eastern European countries is internal. It's like India blaming its lack of development on British colonialism, only when one investigates further they will find out that India still thrives on the caste system that segregates people in such a way that based off of heritage they are denied certain positions, then there is the discrimination against women still present. India is dysfunctional from within therefore it struggles in a lot of sectors. No, I'm not saying that the problems faced by the EE are the same as India's but the underlying mentality is.
So according to you, Russia knows what's best for Ukraine because of its negative experience with laissez-faire capitalism. I'll tell you why it faced those problems. Its economy was not suited for the transition to capitalism since the government controlled the means of production in the socialism practiced by the SU. Therefore with the liberalisation of the economy, the system in place became antiquated.
You claim that Russia was forced to adopt this new system, but then I ask you what would have happened in the opposite situation? Would the US and by extension the rest of the Marshall plan world have adopted Soviet socialism as the new economic model?
Russia should look at the US as a template upon which to build a successful economy while trying to avoid the pitfalls of inequality that come with it.
The reality is that the capitalist model has been far more successful. Just look at the countries in each block and see where they stand.
North Korea vs South Korea
Cuba vs most countries in SA
China's transition
Vietnam's transition
Yeah like Ukrainians don't mind being literally killed right now in the East by Russian soldiers stealing their land.
They "steal" it along with people you see, and that's the difference.
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Better to worry about the conspiracy theories made up by Russian propaganda machine. How do you like that shale gas btw, 10 years ago I heard that Gazprom was going to rule the world? LOL
Where have you heard it, on Russian TV?
Because I obviously don't have one))))
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Russia was never a market for Ukrainian agricultural exports.
Define "never" please. Because that's what Ukraine was - a "breadbasket of Russia" for the last 300 years or so)))
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So its "closure" doesn't affect Ukraine at all. Russia is a competitor for the same kinds of exports. As for grain exports, they go to the same places they went before: Turkey, Middle East and North Africa.
Ukraine has access to a much larger market in the EU than Russia was. 4 times the # of people, 8 times the GDP. Russia's only response is to flood the minds of aging Russian TV watchers that somehow Ukraine will get the short end of the economic stick with a free trade agreement with the EU. Watch what happens in reality...
I am watching, and what I see so far as the result of their "reforms" - their income slid down big time, and their medical care indicates very dangerous signs;
By extension, what opportunities does Russia provide that can't be found in the EU?
Russian job market is big ( if not to say huge) actually. Now the living conditions/pay is the whole different matter.
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There is no unanimous anything. Of course people in a country are going to disagree on major issues. While not everyone in Ukraine wants to join the EU, there are a number of people who do.
I am sure of this, the only question is the price of "joining."
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Maybe if you stopped blaming the US for everything that you disliked you would see that the problems faced by Eastern European countries is internal.
I don't blame the US for "everything," just for very specific thing.
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It's like India blaming its lack of development on British colonialism, only when one investigates further they will find out that India still thrives on the caste system that segregates people in such a way that based off of heritage they are denied certain positions, then there is the discrimination against women still present. India is dysfunctional from within therefore it struggles in a lot of sectors. No, I'm not saying that the problems faced by the EE are the same as India's but the underlying mentality is.
There is no "cast system" in Russia, so provided the right steps were taken during the economic reforms, none of the today's BS would be happening - both in politics and economy.
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So according to you, Russia knows what's best for Ukraine because of its negative experience with laissez-faire capitalism.
A lot of Russians understand what's really going on.
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I'll tell you why it faced those problems. Its economy was not suited for the transition to capitalism since the government controlled the means of production in the socialism practiced by the SU. Therefore with the liberalisation of the economy, the system in place became antiquated.
You claim that Russia was forced to adopt this new system, but then I ask you what would have happened in the opposite situation?
...and then you question sometimes why do I back out of conversation)))
OK, here is something for your home work -
Would the US and by extension the rest of the Marshall plan world have adopted Soviet socialism as the new economic model?
Russia should look at the US as a template upon which to build a successful economy while trying to avoid the pitfalls of inequality that come with it.
Russia SHOULD HAVE NEVER EVER LOOKED AT THE US AS a "TEMPLATE" That's exactly where the pitfall was.)))
It should have looked at Europe instead.
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The reality is that the capitalist model has been far more successful. Just look at the countries in each block and see where they stand.
North Korea vs South Korea
Cuba vs most countries in SA
China's transition
Vietnam's transition
There are different versions of "capitalism."
American version of it was and still is detrimental for Russia, as I've said.
They "steal" it along with people you see, and that's the difference.
Where have you heard it, on Russian TV?
Because I obviously don't have one))))
Define "never" please. Because that's what Ukraine was - a "breadbasket of Russia" for the last 300 years or so)))
I am watching, and what I see so far as the result of their "reforms" - their income slid down big time, and their medical care indicates very dangerous signs;
~10 years ago I lived in Russia for a while and my friend worked for Gazprom so I got to hear the bragging. I was told this was the end of USA's financial dominance and Russia led by oil and gas companies was going to rule the world. I remember Medvedev stating things about Gazprom becoming a national champion and worth a trillion dollars. My how things have changed.
[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-eu/eu-vows-unwavering-support-to-ukraine-but-problems-with-deal-mount-idUSKBN13J0QE]EU vows unwavering support to Ukraine but problems with deal mount | Reuters[/url
Russian job market is big ( if not to say huge) actually. Now the living conditions/pay is the whole different matter.
The Russian job market may be big, but it pales next to that of the EU. There are several countries in the EU that either exceed of match Russia's economy. What sector or more precisely what jobs does Russia offer that cannot be found within the EU? I'm mostly looking at high tech industry or jobs that fit within the white-collar denomination. Blue collar ones are a dime a dozen and can therefore be found everywhere.
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I am sure of this, the only question is the price of "joining."
Who gets to define that?
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I don't blame the US for "everything," just for very specific thing.
On the imposition of free market capitalism? If you go with that premise, then you may as well blame the Bolsheviks on the forceful imposition of their brand of communism on feudal Russia.
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There is no "cast system" in Russia, so provided the right steps were taken during the economic reforms, none of the today's BS would be happening - both in politics and economy.
The right initiative was taken , but not the right steps. Russia didn't modernize to account for the change in economic structure. Agriculture and the manufacturing sector alone are not viable long term solutions for development. That's the same problem the American Midwest faces where a lot of people fail to come to terms with the realities of the 21st century. Manufacturing jobs may have been outsourced to China, but that doesn't take into account the biggest culprit which is the rise of automation. Why would companies hire individuals when machines can do the job a lot faster at a far smaller cost while ensuring at the same time a higher level of productivity?
Even Putin recognizes the limitations of a manufacturing based economy and recently suggested that the country that progresses the most in IT will become the dominant power in the world.
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A lot of Russians understand what's really going on.
I don't think they do.
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Russia SHOULD HAVE NEVER EVER LOOKED AT THE US AS a "TEMPLATE" That's exactly where the pitfall was.)))
It should have looked at Europe instead.
Debatable. While the US is by no means the best country when it comes to social services, the weight of it's economy is undeniable. In fact, even more so than it's military might, the economy is what propels the US to superpower status.
The US offers more opportunities to entrepreneurs but if you're part of the Middle Class then you may be better off in Western Europe.
I personally believe that the US could be even better if it incorporated things from European countries such as free healthcare, better public transportation, mandatory paid leave... The US is pretty stubborn though so it will take a while to get these things up and running. Why to this day it has not adopted the metric system remains a mystery?
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There are different versions of "capitalism."
American version of it was and still is detrimental for Russia, as I've said.
Yes, there are different variations of capitalism. The merits of the laissez-faire approach have been questioned on multiple occasions, which is why even in the US things are gradually changing.
There the entire site is beautiful)))
Although it's sad that there are people who use these slops (((
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