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Number one - I sincerely do not know WHAT EXACTLY is the cost of war for Russia in Ukraine, but those who deal with so-called "VOENTORG" ( or rather people close to it) don't sound any alarm, so apparently it's not AS expensive as you make us believe. (I would guess that Syria's endeavor is more expensive, but than again it's only my guess.) And I DO NOT know what the accommodations of over 1 million refugees cost ( PLUS all kind of humanitarian aid that's sent to Donbass/Luhansk costs, since it's not just "sugar and salt," obviously.) So all and all I suspect that war expenses and humanitarian aid expenses are quite comparable in this case.
And number two - regarding the Ukrainian refugees ( or rather all inhabitants of Donbass) being used as "pawns" - but I've said that already long time ago that it was a case and condemned it long time ago.
If you read my older posts, I've already said that Putin should have brought the military and took over Eastern Ukraine long time ago, protecting it from forceful "Ukrainianization."
A lot of people there wouldn't have been dead by now - that's for sure.
I totally understand the population of that area that didn't want to live under American puppet regime; these people didn't "betray" anything as you are trying to imagine here.
The problem is, Putin and Co are a part of the global financial machine; their investments are in the US and they are dependent on the financial system that serves primarily American interests. And that's why Putin couldn't act in true Russian national interests, including protection of the Russian population of Donbass. And that's how they ended up as pawns.
But as I've already said long time ago; it was the whole design of the nineties - to get the new upper strata in Russia ( government including) to work in American interests, not Russian national interests, and that's what basically happened. It's just simply with time, Putin found himself in more and more difficult position of being entangled in the world's financial system ( where all the stings lead to you know where,) and promoting the policies that would benefit his state.
What will come out of it, remains to be seeing.
You make no sense whatsoever. Putin is an American puppet that is why he didnt start a large scale war to occupy a good chunk of Ukraine oppressed by Ukranization which in practice looks like Russification, after 25 years of independence Russian language dominates the country and its use on the rise especially in government. Ukrainian elites no longer bother themselves with learning and conversing in Ukrainian language, and they didnt ask Putin for help in this matter. Anyway Russian nazi obsession with Ukrainian language is something deeply mental.
Ok, lets elaborate more on your train of thoughts. Comrade Putin is an American puppet and upon receiving direct orders from Washington he started a small hybrid war to wear Ukraine down in submission to Putin' Russia (i.e. Washington will, which makes no sense since Washington rules Kiev already), instead of waging a big conventional war to the glory of Mother Russia as a real Russian patriot like yourself would have done. A good chunk of Donbas people, leftovers of soviet Empire overdosed with Russian TV, hated American puppets in Kiev so much they sided with an American puppet in Moscow waging a little hybrid war to dislodge American puppets sitting in Kiev, so American puppets in Moscow could serve Washington interests better than those mongrels currently serving Washington in Kiev. Makes sense not.
Comrade Lenin was so right making fun of the Russian chauvinism. No matter what Russian people' views are, no matter their background - scratch those off and you'll hit a deep layer of the nazi imperial conditioning defying common sense.
Last edited by RememberMee; 01-23-2016 at 02:05 PM..
You make no sense whatsoever. Putin is an American puppet that is why he didnt start a large scale war to occupy a good chunk of Ukraine oppressed by Ukranization which in practice looks like Russification, after 25 years of independence Russian language dominates the country and its use on the rise especially in government. Ukrainian elites no longer bother themselves with learning and conversing in Ukrainian language, and they didnt ask Putin for help in this matter. Anyway Russian nazi obsession with Ukrainian language is something deeply mental.
There is a difference of course between such downright American puppet regime as Poroshenko's, where his cabinet is eagerly awaiting direct commands from Washington, and something like Putin's regime. In the first case they knowingly "sign up" to be subordinate, but in second case, signing all this WTOs, shifting their money to American papers and killing their own industries, they HOPE that they can remain independent and promote their own independent policies. The sobering reality settles in at certain point in time, and that creates the whole barrage of *unexpected activities.*
As far as Ukrainian language goes - no, it's rather Ukrainians that are "mental" about it; it sits deep in the psyche of their nationalists that getting rid of Ukraine's "shameful past" ( i.e. being last 600 years part of Russia) getting rid of Russian language is the first and utmost important step. As for Russians in Donetsk? They kept Ukrainian as an official second state language (even after everything that has been done to them!) I can't comment these people enough.
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Ok, lets elaborate more on your train of thoughts. Comrade Putin is an American puppet and upon receiving direct orders from Washington he started a small hybrid war to wear Ukraine down in submission to Putin' Russia (i.e. Washington will, which makes no sense since Washington rules Kiev already), instead of waging a big conventional war to the glory of Mother Russia as a real Russian patriot like yourself would have done.
As I've already said, Putin ( unlike Poroshenko) doesn't receive any direct orders from Washington; what he receives instead is "economic sanctions" and some other restrictions when his actions are not approved by Washington. ( I suspect that falling oil prices might have something to do with the punishment of "the "insubordinate," but that's up to debate. ) And obviously, Putin supports ( doesn't really "start" - no,) the civil war in Ukraine. The reason he does it of course is interference with his economic plans, which he discovers with time, differ quite a bit with Washington. So it's all imperialist games - both of Washington and Moscow - yes, and people of Donbass become a pawn in them.
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A good chunk of Donbass people, leftovers of soviet Empire overdosed with Russian TV, hated American puppets in Kiev so much they sided with an American puppet in Moscow waging a little hybrid war to dislodge American puppets sitting in Kiev, so American puppets in Moscow could serve Washington interests better than those mongrels currently serving Washington in Kiev. Makes sense not.
Of course it doesn't make sense, since you are writing nonsense, but yes - Donbass people are the ultimate leftovers of the Soviet Union and many regard themselves as such. And why shouldn't they? I've already said before that it's the blue color region, they were miners and steel workers for generations; they didn't win anything from crony capitalism and oligarchy. They were better off for the most part under the Soviet system; for knowing that they don't need to be "overdozed with Russian TV" at all.
Now they are getting in the mines as usual ( when their mines are not bombed that is,) and part of them are fighting at the font lines. They are a tough bunch, I wish them all the best.
Comrade Lenin was so right making fun of the Russian chauvinism. No matter what Russian people' views are, no matter their background - scratch those off and you'll hit a deep layer of the nazi imperial conditioning defying common sense.
While I don't argue that there is such thing as "Russian chauvinism," I don't see how it's related to Donbass people. From what I can see, they represent in many ways what's the best in Russians, not the worst.
Dear weasel Erasure, a single missile for Uragan multiple rocket missile launcher costs $40,000+, Grad missile is cheaper and it costs $25,000. Uragan and Grad are two weapon systems widely used by the Russian nazi forces. How does that compare to the cost of 40,000 tons of sugar and salt the evil Empire allegedly trucked in to the region it destroyed? To compare the costs of "aid" with the costs of war is criminally insane. Again comrade Frolov and you are either liars or zombies to claim what you claim.
Ukrainian refugees, even the ones who were more than willing to betray Ukraine, are forced to return to war torn area because Russia provided no accomodations for them. My guess the Fuhrer wants them back in Ukraine, they are just pawns to be used and abused, not to provide for.
You govlrite complete nonsense. In Russia, more than 2 million refugees from Ukraine. including they live iiv my region. We spend a lot of money on humanitarian convoys for Ukraine. Unlike you. you just feed them promises.
There is a difference of course between such downright American puppet regime as Poroshenko's, where his cabinet is eagerly awaiting direct commands from Washington,
What was the most recent order Poroshenko received? From our non initiated laymen point of view USA and especially European appeasers are busy pushing Ukraine to amend its Constitution to please Kremlin' dwarf while ignoring Russian troops on the Ukrainian soil, brazen violation of international law and unfulfilled Russian obligations per Minsk II. Surreal, really. USA as a Putin' sidekick teaming with aggressor to shape Ukraine in order to please aggressor' wishes. 2 years after the start of Putin' hybrid aggression, USA didn't provide any meaningful military assistance to its alleged Ukrainian puppets, how come?
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signing all this WTOs, shifting their money to American papers and killing their own industries, they HOPE that they can remain independent and promote their own independent policies.
Most of the countries benefit of WTO', especially poorer countries stealing the jobs and entire industries from the richer countries. Why Russia is different? Any treaty, any organization limits one's independence. Sure, Russia is destined by Universal providence to be above treaties. Why sign then? Drink vodka, drive Lada Kalina, wear vatnik ( "cotton-padded jacket"), praise a dear leader and his wise rule.
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As far as Ukrainian language goes - no, it's rather Ukrainians that are "mental" about it; it sits deep in the psyche of their nationalists that getting rid of Ukraine's "shameful past" ( i.e. being last 600 years part of Russia) getting rid of Russian language is the first and utmost important step.
Yes, Russification of Ukraine is a legacy of Imperial subjugation. 350+ years of intense imperial pressure to wipe out Ukrainian language and identity. Even now discussions involving Ukrainian language turns seemingly rational Russians into rabid nazi dogs, read Russian forums, they are overflowing with evidence for my harsh claim, and you know that so I want to see you trying to deny the obvious. Yes, Russian and Soviet Empires went mental trying to wipe out Ukrainian language. I know you love wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono..._language_bans. That's what I call mental. Without a shade of doubt, it's shameful Ukrainian past. How do those Ukrainian "nationalists" measure up against Russian lead attempts to wipe out Ukrainian language? Is there anything remotely similar those evil Ukrainian nationalists did to Russian language and speakers in the past 25 years? Do tell.
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As for Russians in Donetsk? They kept Ukrainian as an official second state language (even after everything that has been done to them!) I can't comment these people enough.
Are you serious? Russian nazi scum kills Ukrainian speakers, Donetsk region was linguistically, ethnically, and politically cleansed of Ukrainian language and few of its speakers, Russian speaking people identifying themselves as Ukrainians were cleansed out too, many killed and torturered. Russian nazi scum showed what it has in its sleeve for the rest of Ukraine. Occupied Donetsk region saw 100% Russification of education and everything else. Conversing in Ukrainian is a mortal offense. What does "official second language" mean? It means nothing when Russian nazi puppets use it for propaganda purposes.
As I've already said, Putin ( unlike Poroshenko) doesn't receive any direct orders from Washington;
Are you sure? Do you have a special psychic connection with the Fuhrer to claim that? Just yesterday I saw a letter with Putin' orders leaving Washington DC.
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what he receives instead is "economic sanctions" and some other restrictions when his actions are not approved by Washington.
Annexations, hybrid wars, crack down on dissent, murders, wars, etc., etc., are approved by everyone except Washington? If Kremlin' perv decided to play a big dog, you should not complain about reaction to his actions. Russia and Russian Fuhrer don't live and mastermind great schemes in vacuum. It has nothing to do with Washington' approval, it's just the 3rd Law of Political thermodynamics, actions cause reactions.
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Of course it doesn't make sense, since you are writing nonsense, but yes - Donbass people are the ultimate leftovers of the Soviet Union and many regard themselves as such. And why shouldn't they? I've already said before that it's the blue color region, they were miners and steel workers for generations; they didn't win anything from crony capitalism and oligarchy. They were better off for the most part under the Soviet system; for knowing that they don't need to be "overdozed with Russian TV" at all.
What do you know about Soviet miners' life except the last decade or two? For much of the soviet history miners were worked as disposable slaves under appalling work conditions, the losses of miner's life were huge, soviets drafted criminals, banderovetz (released from camps Western Ukrainian guerrillas), 16 y.o. collective farm boys to man Donbass mines, only at later days of USSR Brezhnev threw miners a bone. Yet, after USSR collapse semi criminal boses of Donbass treated miners and industrial workers as dumb cattle and slaves again. Workers didn't make a peep, or ... the mines are deep, criminal gangs are/were merciless. Now, armed Russian nazi thugs and collaborants work the suckers for free again, and there are no complaints, nobody wants a bullet between his eyes. In short, comrade Lenin was wrong about proletariat as a leading force for social change. Worker cattle needs a Sheppard. It's just that Russian Fuhrer replaced criminals as a herd leader for a while.
Now they are getting in the mines as usual ( when their mines are not bombed that is,) and part of them are fighting at the font lines. They are a tough bunch, I wish them all the best.
You post a video featuring a well known war criminal, mass murderer, torturer, sick to the bone psychopath as a fine example of Donbass people? Perhaps. Nevermind he was smart enough not to never work in mines. I was amazed, I simply couldn't believe how nonchalant Russian nazi scum and collaborants are about posting videos of torture, humiliation and war crimes. And if that is not enough, comments of the rabidly jubilant Russian citizenry just top it off, you just want to forget Russian language those rabid human like creatures use, not to have anything in common with two legged animals in comments overdosed on famous Russian "spirituality". If this guy will not be captured, tried, or eliminated in any other way, if Ukrainian state will make any deal with Russia allowing this guy to walk, there is no point for such a state. At the very least GRU death squads must get rid of him the way they got rid of other notorious collaborants and Russian nazi volunteers.
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While I don't argue that there is such thing as "Russian chauvinism," I don't see how it's related to Donbass people. From what I can see, they represent in many ways what's the best in Russians, not the worst.
Yes, it does apply to ethnic Russians of Donbass, this term applies to the rest: mankurt, except there was not fight, they turned without fight. Remember good chunk of Donbass people are descendants of the "vicious" Banderovets. Chinghiz Aitmatov draws in his book, The Day Lasts More Than a Hundred Years heavily on the tradition of the mankurts.
The legend is about a Turkmenian who defends his homeland from invasion. He is captured, tortured, and brainwashed into serving his homeland's conquerors. He is so completely turned that he kills his mother when she attempts to rescue him from captivity.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mankurt
The term mankurt means not just an assimilated person, it's an assimilated person wishing and/or working to destroy (unwanted) mother culture, language, identity. Since you are a russified minority yourself, are you a mankurt wishing the death to your mother' identity, culture and language just like many Donbass people of Ukrainian origin do?
Last edited by RememberMee; 01-26-2016 at 01:02 AM..
RememberMee, you forget that Crimea, Donetsk, Lugansk, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc. is not the Ukrainian lands in historical perspective. And your posts show that Ukraine will die, because Ukrainians do not want to compromise with local populations.
SHOCKING NEWS:
Putin, Russia, the news have just admitted Russian troops have and will invade Ukraine due
to national instability and threat to Russian population and area of Novorossia!
Wow!
I guess the Russia-Ukraine war is on afterall. Gov of Poroshenko is about to collapse, and the Fascist/nationalist take-over is imminent. Thus, Putin decided to take action before even worse events occur than have already happened.
Ok, folks, get ready for heavy NATO activity in Eastern Europe which will lead to WWIII.
RememberMee, you forget that Crimea, Donetsk, Lugansk, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc. is not the Ukrainian lands in historical perspective. And your posts show that Ukraine will die, because Ukrainians do not want to compromise with local populations.
This post brought to me by the bear with balalaika.
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) And obviously, Putin supports ( doesn't really "start" - no,) the civil war in Ukraine. The reason he does it of course is interference with his economic plans, which he discovers with time, differ quite a bit with Washington. So it's all imperialist games - both of Washington and Moscow - yes, and people of Donbass become a pawn in them. 
