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hmm, do we really know whether Ukraine returned all nukes to Russia in 1994 ?
Maybe Yanukovich released some interesting info about this to Putin in revenge
for the actions against him in Kiew
(pure speculation)
No, they were all returned, heavily monitored and all accounted for.
What do you mean ' without Russia '? Relations of Russia and Ukraine is not family and various privileges are cancelled. Ukraine will live with Russia as live Poland or Balts, I do not see a problems.
The question of ocurrence Ukraine into the EU is not actual, basically out-block status arranges us. Some info - for last 4 years Yanukovich government deduced 52 billion dollars from Ukraine, i.e. Ukraine is not so poor contry, a problem in government.
Ukrainian imports from Russia are also comparable to all imports from other European countries outside the CIS . Here are just as opposed to imports from the EU , it is vital for the existence of the Ukrainian economy. No EU is not able to give her much-needed oil and gas and in the right quantities .Ukraine desperately needs resources . Recall EU accession of Romania the same (note to the EU, and not to offer Ukraine FTA) has led to a spike in foreign direct investment. In 2008, the country accounted for 9 billion euros . Alas, the golden days of the Romanians in the past. In less than five years , as investors lose one's attraction to invest in Romania, today built industrial complexes are empty , and the road paved by European subsidies lead nowhere .But it is not only and not so much in these figures . More importantly. In the EU, Ukrainian goods are in demand ( they are considered either poor quality or too expensive ) .Ukraine does not have resources that are required of the EU.To raise on foot Ukraine needs to start at least $ 100 billion . What damage has led these fascists?So without Russia Ukraine has no future.
With which Ukraine wants to have affairs and trying to show that we are not their brothers showing ass.
so let watch face. Ukraine alone will not be able to exist normally.
boxus, I don't see why it matters who is president.
Even if they consider Yanukovich the president
(he has no parliament, though)
It's a violation of the memorandum in any case.
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the
threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of
Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except
in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
The enforcement is through UNO. USA,UK,Russia
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate
United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a
non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear
Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object
of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.
hmm, this is ambiguous
act of (any) aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used act of aggression (in which nuclear weapons are used) or an object of a threat of aggression in
which nuclear weapons are used
well, presumably the latter (?) , maybe it's clearer in Russian or Ukrainian
boxus, I don't see why it matters who is president.
Even if they consider Yanukovich the president
(he has no parliament, though)
It's a violation of the memorandum in any case.
It matters if Ynaukovich is president or not; it is not an invasion if the president invites troops in. It is like saying someone is breaking into your house even though you invited them in.
The Memo is not a treaty, and the Memo has no enforcement regulations in it, as in a violation does not equal enforcement. You see, in many, if not all legal documents, there are enforcement regulations to go along with it. Just Google and look at any run of the mill US Chapter code and view through it, you will come across enforcement language. The Memo does not have any enforcement in it, it refers to international laws.
The international law part is where who is president part comes in.
Besides that, let it be a violation, hardly a reason to start WW3 over, not even a reason to spend one dime of US tax dollars on. Ukraine made their choice, let them face the consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs
The enforcement is through UNO. USA,UK,Russia
Enforcement through international law, if using international law, a coup against a fairly elected leader is not legal, so Yanukovich is still president until he resigns.
17.15 Uhr: Für Militärintervention "derzeit keine Notwendigkeit" +++
Duma-Präsident Sergej Naryschkin sagt, dass eine Militäraktion Russlands nicht unmittelbar bevorsteht. Derzeit bestehe dazu "keine Notwendigkeit". Es sei "derzeit nicht notwendig" für Russland, von seinem "Recht zu einer Militärintervention" Gebrauch zu machen.
--------------------------------
Duma president Sergej Naryschkin says there is currently no need for military action of Russia
ahh, I didn't catch that twist yet. They are saying it's all an action of the Russian-independent
Crimean troops including the black-sea-fleet, without Russian involvement ?!?
Civil war.
With Russia just only staying ready to support them, if needed.
In which case however Russia would be involved.
So it's a threat of military force, still a possible/probable(?) violation of the
Budapest memorandum
First, a country with active disputes cannot join NATO; Georgia and Ukraine have active disputes now and in the past. This Crimea area thing is not a recent event, there has but another territory event in the past as well.
NATO is an organization in search of a mission. Created to counter the Soviets, it had zero military operations during the Cold War, yet three after the Cold War. Mission creep anyone? Would this not put Russia on the defensive?
Ukraine will yet be another drag on NATO, NATO could not even carry out a three month no-fly-zone over Libya without needing resupply of munitions from the US. All Ukraine wants to do is throw rocks from behind a wall, nothing more. All Ukrainians want is the EU passport so they can flee to west Europe and live off the welfare system, and this is what it is really all about (my opinion of course). But I guarantee
Tymenshenko is just as bad as Yanukovich, she was hated so much she could not even win an election against him. The Orange Revolt was a failure, and even Yushchenko testified against her during her trial. She is hardly some beacon of democracy and non-corruption.
Anyway, the whole situation has gotten crazy. Really, could Putin have gone insane? Is there something serious he (and the West) knows we do not know about this? Really, either Putin has gone off the deep end, or the stakes are much higher than the media is making it and the public knows.
So, you had to link to a random Sri Lankan newspaper and the personal blog of a 9/11 conspiracist in order to prove your point?
So, you couldn't answer my plain question - is that russian propaganda? It's unworthy to belittle the truthful sources if you can't say something intelligible. I have mentioned above who this personal bloger is. And the funny thing is - even a random Sri Lankan newspaper have a clear view on the situation. You don't.
Anyway, the whole situation has gotten crazy. Really, could Putin have gone insane? Is there something serious he (and the West) knows we do not know about this? Really, either Putin has gone off the deep end, or the stakes are much higher than the media is making it and the public knows.
Ah Boxus! I like the rationality! Something is amiss here. I'm sure we realize the Poles right now are working the phones to the EU, to the US , to the Ukraine. And maybe if they can control themselves meeting in a small room somewhere in the Sejm asking to a Russian diplomat, 'Please, please dont' do this'. Question is is anybody home???
And regarding NATO. Yes. The possibility of action in the Crimea now more than likely ratchets up the movement and strategy of NATO now. More fuel to the fire. More arguments now for Putin to get his teeth into. Rossiya 1 tonite: The West will get harangued for foemtning and instigating provocation on the Ukrainian border!' The script is ready and it is looking into an abyss. Hey is this 1961 again?? Whose agenda are we looking at?
Nice and friendly-looking Russian "freedom fighters" on Saturday in Simferopol:
(Genya Savilov / AFP)
Evil Ukrainian "fascists" yesterday morning at Maidan:
( Louisa Gouliamaki / AFP)
Evil fascist militants trained and paid by USA demonstrating outside the Russian Embassy in Helsinki yesterday:
(Markku Ulander / Lehtikuva)
I guess these weren't shown on RT...
You're wrong.
RT reported this kind of things saying that a lot of western people are heavily brainwashed by their media. They can't get a real thing from their news that keep telling them lies year by year and intentionally distorting all world events. Those people sincerely believe that Russia is so bad, that Russia wants to seize Ukraine etc.. They are good decent people with a great hearts, but they are TOTALLY MISINFORMED AND MISLED!! Your media works hard to do it.
For the last 20 years, the same informational politics was in Ukraine. Even now in Kiev "the new authorities" turned off all russian TV channels and keep telling ukrainians that Russia attacted Ukraine and wants to split the country. I just received an email from a friend of mine who live in Kiev. He says that people get fooled and don't know what's going on for real. No truth in the newspapers, bad internet connection... Some strange groups of people are crying on the streets like - russian wants war with us. He said that I won't believe about a high level of anti-russian hysteria in the city now.
So, those protesters in your pics are in the misleading fog as well.
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