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If the people of Eastern Ukraine want to secede let them. Why are you guys cheering on the Ukraine military to crush and kill their own citizens who no longer want to live part of Kiev? What kind of blood thirsty people are you?
If it was so easy ... The thing is, Burisma Holdings Ltd, has already bought shale gas deposits in the Donbas, where the largest gas field, explored in the USSR, and the United States pulls her arms to him. The board of the company was included the son of Biden and one state secretary John Kerry.
All this is part of a plan for the separation of the European Union from the "gas dependence" on Russia, but that's unlikely to Europe would be glad this gap, especially in view of the fact that this gas would be much more expensive. But then America rightly relied on the fact that he could take away from the Russian gas transportation system, which, in principle, it almost succeeded. Hence, too, and you try to insert a stick in the wheel of the South because it would in any case not been completed by the European Commission, which defends the interests of non EU countries and the US.
Hence the same and Turkish stream that Russia began to build, what to leave in the Atlantic basin, bypassing the European Commission. Now, in principle, Russia somehow poboku will-whether Europe buy gas from Russia or not - in the Atlantic basin Russia will find buyers. There will be a station to which the LNG tankers can moor. Thus Russia will enter the market in the Pacific Ocean, through Vladivostok and in the Atlantic, via Turkey. At the same time make futile war in Ukraine.
From Ukraine, Zaporozhye, the woman took the microphone from the military, which urged people to war, and said that the people from their land will not go on the war more, they do not want to fight with the Donetsk and Russia, that they are one people, and do not want war. What they do not need no NATO, no Europe, because NATO and Europe for them other people. That Poroshenko is invader and that they will not protect embezzled goverment of Poroshenko.
And I'd put forth another woman who speaks as well for peace. Her restraint is an understatement considering the brutal violence going on.
“The Russian contribution to peace in Ukraine is not sufficient. [German Chancellor commenting on 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine and annexation of Crimea]”
― Angela Merkel
And I'd put forth another woman who speaks as well for peace. Her restraint is an understatement considering the brutal violence going on.
“The Russian contribution to peace in Ukraine is not sufficient. [German Chancellor commenting on 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine and annexation of Crimea]â€
― Angela Merkel
The only reason there is violence is the citizens of eastern Ukraine, Donetsk, want to separate from a NATO bound Ukraine and instead of honoring their wishes Kiev is attacking them, so they're fighting back.
It was USA/NATO/EU who got this ball rolling by encouraging the maiden protestors to violently topple a government so the replacement can move towards them and away from Russia. Well then naturally the Russians of eastern Ukraine will want to secede and Russia should support them.
travric, It is. Russian contribution to peace in Ukraine can not be sufficient, without other side - USA. No one pease in the world was not maked by one side, if we are not speaking about capitulation of course. Putin can stop DNR with his influence only in one case - if Kiev will stop bombing cities. Other case no one in DNR will listen.
And there is some movements in this direction tooday: Kerry said the US desire to act as a guarantor of peace in Ukraine
I'l think with news news with the news about Merkel and Oland in Moscow tommorow mean that there can happen something important.. or may not, we'll look.
^
We will see. And no doubt more Merkel quotes. I am very curious how the Germans are going to push for movement. Really the violence on both sides needs to stop and the tomahawks need to be put down. In order to get a ceasefire going, the talks have to give each some face-saving in a contest of wills. None can see that this is simply a 'local bust up'. It's certainly more than that here in the 21st. Dangerous as hell. Very dangerous for the antagonists and the 'bystanders'.
And I'd put forth another woman who speaks as well for peace. Her restraint is an understatement considering the brutal violence going on.
“The Russian contribution to peace in Ukraine is not sufficient. [German Chancellor commenting on 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine and annexation of Crimea]”
― Angela Merkel
The "brutal violence" is coming from "Ukrainian" part.
They can't accept the fact that Eastern Ukraine doesn't want anything to do with this criminal government ( it's already clear by now that it's criminal) that they didn't choose.
Eastern Ukraine already buried enough of their children to not to want anything to do with Kiev, so Angela Merkel's designs on situation already don't matter. (Here is yet another child buried today, in Uglegorsk.)
What seizure of power by "Nazis"?? Or rather, what "Nazis"?? If you are referring to the Right Sector and other similar Ukrainian parties, they control only 1.5% of Ukraine's legislative body. 98.5% of the legislators are not right-wingers.
Nazi presence on Ukraine? Yes present. They organize torchlight processions, use symbols SS, etc. http://youtu.be/ABdPiV1xf7o http://youtu.be/FL-sPw1O6Ng http://youtu.be/rnn3kZZdQ24 http://youtu.be/P6U5we-0AZU http://youtu.be/Eak30zxIFqA http://youtu.be/UjSZy8wTlK0
Yes, the Nazis are poorly represented in the parliament, but they control the streets. For example, a couple of days ago, the government passed a law to disband the battalion "Azov". Activists in Kiev began to burn tires and rioted, and the government to change the law. The population does not choose these people, but these people have the power. And these people pose a threat to the Russian population of Ukraine.
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
The ex-president of Ukraine voluntarily fled to Russia, under his own power. He was not even arrested, much less held, by his opponents. He abandoned his elected post and in doing so, abandoned the people of Ukraine, whom he had sworn to defend and protect, for his own interests. He's hardly suffered since, as he's been taken under Putin's wing - and took public Ukrainian funds with him when he voluntarily departed.
Voluntarily? No, he fled because his life was threatened. The Nazis were not able to arrest him and kill him, because the security services brought it out to a safe place. In Russia.
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
Have you seen the pictures of his elaborate private rustic "palace" outside of Kyiv? He certainly did not live modestly, and spent public hrivnas on his huge estate, which is now a public park.
President of the country with 40 million population should live in poverty? He was selected in the national elections. It was a choice of the Ukrainian population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
The deaths in the Odessa fire last spring were not a "massacre". I agree that was a tragic incident, of which there have been far too many in Ukraine over the last year.
The tragic incident - it is not planned tragedy. In Odessa, was a planned action. People (women!) was locked in a building and then the building was set on fire. People tried to escape through the windows, but the Nazis was shooting at him with a pistol. People jumped out of windows and broke. And those who are not broke, were beaten bits. After the fire, the young people went through the building and finished off the survivors. It was a massacre, dozens of people was killing. The new Nazi authorities showed his strength, and it worked in all regions of Ukraine, except for Lugansk and Donetsk, because most of the population in these regions - Russian. Events in Odessa is one of the key events of the beginning of the Civil War.
The demonstrations on the Maidan were hardly a "civil war", and preceded the legal and democratic election of Ukraine's current representatives and president. The current conflict in Ukraine is in opposition to that democratically elected government, and while of course there are some who do not support those representatives, as is the case in any democracy, the "loyal opposition" is not what is causing the present conflict. Russia and her supporters - the "disloyal opposition" - bear that blame.
Protesters (Nazis) were killing policemen, threw stones at them and Molotov cocktails. And these people have won. Maidan leaders (who came to power through the blood of the police), began to govern Ukraine.
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
Russia is supplying men and materials, insidiously spreading distorted "new" and other propaganda to both Russian citizens and people in eastern Ukraine, has blocked many, many other news sources and has harassed, arrested, and imprisoned many journalists who would present views contrary to the "party line", has cracked down on demonstrations by those who bear other views and who oppose Russia's involvement in Ukraine, has secretly cremated the remains of the war dead, and lied to their families about their sons' fates.
Can you prove it?
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
I think there is a much higher percentage of extreme nationalists in power in Russia right now, Putin and other former KGB personnel being among them.
150 nations live in Russia. And live relatively peacefully. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu not Russian (he Tuvinian). The Nazis did not have power in Russia.
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
Have you read the just-published theory that Putin suffers from prenatal brain damage and Asperger's Syndrome, which combine to form his character?
I've read this theory. This is complete nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
If Russia would just go home, tend to her own people and her own business (both of which are crying out for attention), and let Ukraine remain Ukraine, none of this at all would be occurring.
Russia will not leave Ukraine. Ukraine is too important for Russia.
Last edited by Maksim_Frolov; 02-05-2015 at 11:04 PM..
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