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Old 08-18-2022, 01:51 AM
 
5,257 posts, read 3,958,598 times
Reputation: 3468

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
100%. Europe should have banned Russian entry in 2014, at least February this year, but better late than never. Russians in Europe should also be deported.

Europe and America should do the same with Chinese people but I guess that's asking too much lol.

If we're fair by that logic Americans should be deported too not just Russians.
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Old 08-18-2022, 01:54 AM
 
5,257 posts, read 3,958,598 times
Reputation: 3468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Do you really think that Russia needs new lands?

Well consider this as a wild example: There are planets made of diamonds...literally since diamond = carbon...very common element. If someone gives this diamond planet to Russia they won't reject the offer I'm 100% sure. Like I've said - it's all about resources not just "Geopolitics".


edit: just giving humours analogy to highlight the whole story because apparently "ukraine is poor and useless" which it isn't.
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Old 08-18-2022, 11:22 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,055 posts, read 106,836,948 times
Reputation: 115795
Quote:
Originally Posted by euro123 View Post
Well consider this as a wild example: There are planets made of diamonds...literally since diamond = carbon...very common element. If someone gives this diamond planet to Russia they won't reject the offer I'm 100% sure. Like I've said - it's all about resources not just "Geopolitics".


edit: just giving humours analogy to highlight the whole story because apparently "ukraine is poor and useless" which it isn't.
Russia wouldn't be invading if it were useless.
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Old 08-18-2022, 11:36 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,055 posts, read 106,836,948 times
Reputation: 115795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Do you really think that Russia needs new lands? The Ukrainian conflict is pure geopolitics, Russia is protecting its backyard. And the annexation of lands here is only a necessary consequence, but not the goal.
I think there's truth to this, in view of the fact, that Russia is used to having buffer states around it. But I think there are many reasons for the invasion. One is, that Russia wants Ukraine's natural gas fields, and it's also made its interest in Ukraine's chernozem quite clear, having stolen some of Ukraine's stored wheat. Another is, that it wants to protect its shipping lanes that pass along Ukraine's coast, most of which for the moment is now under Russia's control. And of course, it wants to guarantee the safety of the natural gas lines running through Ukraine to Ukraine's westerly neighbors.

The czar in Moscow mentioned that protecting the natural gas pipelines and also the shipping route had been two of the points being negotiated, back when negotiations were going on.
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Old 08-19-2022, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
11,876 posts, read 8,970,714 times
Reputation: 15164
Quote:
Originally Posted by euro123 View Post
If we're fair by that logic Americans should be deported too not just Russians.
How do you come up with these things? America is an ally of Europe while Russia is their enemy, yet you claim it's the same kind of relationship???
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Old 08-19-2022, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Habsburg Lands of Old
906 posts, read 429,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
How do you come up with these things? America is an ally of Europe while Russia is their enemy, yet you claim it's the same kind of relationship???

The fact of the matter is that the US government has interfered in European elections , wiretapped several leading political figures of its supposed allies , and even quite plausibly supported the terrorists responsible for the Bologna bombing as documented by Daniele Ganser :

https://academic.oup.com/isq/article...42?login=false

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...0PI2AD20150709


https://theintercept.com/2015/09/28/...nsa-operation/


https://www.routledge.com/NATOs-Secr...9780714685007#


In short one is immediately reminded of the old saying of " if one has such friends then one doesn't need enemies " when it comes to the issue of the US government being the ally of Europe .

Which is not to say that Europe should ally itself with the Russian Federation , because it most certainly should not , however a Europe free of both Russian and American influence would be the ideal goal to aim for if institutions like the ( Anti ) European Union didn't exist .
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Old 08-19-2022, 10:56 PM
 
5,257 posts, read 3,958,598 times
Reputation: 3468
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
How do you come up with these things? America is an ally of Europe while Russia is their enemy, yet you claim it's the same kind of relationship???

According to who? Is this a law in Physics? Lol, but then again I will not loose too much energy arguing with shockingly biased u.s. politics, it's the same old story with Hiroshima is "controversial" while the Holocaust is the worst crime in history - while both were war crimes unless someone is brain dead.
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Old 08-19-2022, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Habsburg Lands of Old
906 posts, read 429,469 times
Reputation: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by euro123 View Post
According to who? Is this a law in Physics? Lol, but then again I will not loose too much energy arguing with shockingly biased u.s. politics, it's the same old story with Hiroshima is "controversial" while the Holocaust is the worst crime in history - while both were war crimes unless someone is brain dead.

I must say that it's truly unfortunate that so many hold onto " one is good and the other is bad " conceptions of Russia's or the USA's relation to Europe , when both states have proven to be very much harmful to European interests , albeit in different ways .

To simplify things , Russia tends to favor the stick end of the carrot and stick approach , while the USA favors the carrot end of said approach , with both ends inevitably leading to metaphorical dung .

If a proper European alliance to counter both rogue states were to exist , then the problem could be solved , yet unfortunately even now in 2022 European countries waver between supporting the USA or supporting Russia , when both states should be equally opposed .
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Old 08-20-2022, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
11,876 posts, read 8,970,714 times
Reputation: 15164
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Blakeley View Post
The fact of the matter is that the US government has interfered in European elections , wiretapped several leading political figures of its supposed allies , and even quite plausibly supported the terrorists responsible for the Bologna bombing as documented by Daniele Ganser :

https://academic.oup.com/isq/article...42?login=false

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...0PI2AD20150709


https://theintercept.com/2015/09/28/...nsa-operation/


https://www.routledge.com/NATOs-Secr...9780714685007#


In short one is immediately reminded of the old saying of " if one has such friends then one doesn't need enemies " when it comes to the issue of the US government being the ally of Europe .

Which is not to say that Europe should ally itself with the Russian Federation , because it most certainly should not , however a Europe free of both Russian and American influence would be the ideal goal to aim for if institutions like the ( Anti ) European Union didn't exist .
Apparently you haven't heard. The US and most of Europe have an alliance. It's called NATO. It's main purpose is to defend against Russian attacks. It's stronger than ever now, with new nations joining this year in the face of the Russian menace.

And, in the past year, Russian warplanes have frequently violated the airspace of European nations and Russia's warships cruise their coasts. Also in the past year, Putin and several of his top lieutenants have threatened Europe with nuclear attack multiple times.

But sure, go ahead and push this ridiculous notion that America has the same relationship with Europe that Russia does.
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Old 08-20-2022, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Habsburg Lands of Old
906 posts, read 429,469 times
Reputation: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
Apparently you haven't heard. The US and most of Europe have an alliance. It's called NATO. It's main purpose is to defend against Russian attacks. It's stronger than ever now, with new nations joining this year in the face of the Russian menace.

And, in the past year, Russian warplanes have frequently violated the airspace of European nations and Russia's warships cruise their coasts. Also in the past year, Putin and several of his top lieutenants have threatened Europe with nuclear attack multiple times.

But sure, go ahead and push this ridiculous notion that America has the same relationship with Europe that Russia does.

I think it's safe to say that just about everyone participating in this thread is aware of NATO's existence , which doesn't change the fact that NATO affiliated individuals were quite plausibly very much complicit in aiding or ( depending on how you define their affiliations ) participating in false flag terrorist attacks like the Bologna bombing , as written extensively about by fellows like Daniele Ganser .

And the fact that the Russian Federation does indeed partake in condemnation worthy aggressive posturing , doesn't change the fact that the United States government is still very much an enemy of Europe , in spite of the truth that it favors the carrot end of the carrot and stick approach .

Interfering in your own supposed allies' elections , whilst wiretapping their leaders isn't what I'd call the mark of an ally worth having ( among other things I've no doubt left out ) , but of course one can continue to choose between bad allies ad infinitum .

It does beg the question however of would the American troops still stationed on the Old Continent stand aside/not interfere in the event of (say ) proper as opposed to fake anti globalist/nationalist governments emerging in Europe within the next decade ?

Or would they intervene in the name of freedom and democracy as usual ?

Can a permanent foreign military presence in any country be rightfully described as merely being the sign of a friendly magnanimous ally come to help or isn't it just a silent/non violent military occupation by another name ?
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