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You're from Austria? You probably heard of "Intensivtäter" juvenile delinquents most of them Muslims who commited dozen of crimes and never really get punished, I doubt that Denmark deals more adequate with them than Germany does (or Austria?), I would bet that the man who tried to rape the girl will not spend one night in prison. When you think that a suspended sentence of let's say one or two years is the appropriate punishment for rape you might see it differently.
I worked for a criminal court in Vienna, wrote some judgments myself and had to deal with rapists - amongst those some pedophiles.
I can assure you that none of them got a suspended sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban
How can she defend herself from rape if she did not carry the pepper spray. And if she had to carry it, she might get questioned and arrested for carrying a weapon.
I cannot fathom how you could think they were unrelated.
Again, I don't argue against the act of self-defense. I also think that it's rather stupid to prohibit pepper sprays. The Danish government should discuss a lift of the ban. There are good reasons for that, but there are also reasons for keeping the ban.
To be honest, pepper sprays aren't just used by potential rape victims. That becomes very clear when you hang around bar areas in Europe. Got hit by some on a nights out in Hamburg, where some dudes thought it's appropriate to end their quarrel with some spray. We also had to deal with lots of cases where bouncers at clubs deliberately abused their spray.
My point is that until the government lifts the ban the law has to be followed. They can't just switch to a two-tier judicial system where some laws generally don't get applied to a certain group of people. That's a very dangerous path to take and opens up ways where the government/the judicial system can abuse its power.
I worked for a criminal court in Vienna, wrote some judgments myself and had to deal with rapists - amongst those some pedophiles.
I can assure you that none of them got a suspended sentence.
Again, I don't argue against the act of self-defense. I also think that it's rather stupid to prohibit pepper sprays. The Danish government should discuss a lift of the ban. There are good reasons for that, but there are also reasons for keeping the ban.
To be honest, pepper sprays aren't just used by potential rape victims. That becomes very clear when you hang around bar areas in Europe. Got hit by some on a nights out in Hamburg, where some dudes thought it's appropriate to end their quarrel with some spray. We also had to deal with lots of cases where bouncers at clubs deliberately abused their spray.
My point is that until the government lifts the ban the law has to be followed. They can't just switch to a two-tier judicial system where some laws generally don't get applied to a certain group of people. That's a very dangerous path to take and opens up ways where the government/the judicial system can abuse its power.
In that case it should t be the pepper spray that is illegal, but rather the situation in which it is used. Knives are legal until they're used to commit armed robbery or murder. But if someone attacks you within your home using a knife to defend yourself is perfectly fine.
Guns and knives are lethal weapons, pepper spray is non-lethal. I'm not aware of any state that bans pepper spray in the US and the lethal/non lethal aspect is the crux of the difference in how these items are regulated.
Just FYI: in many states pepper sprays cannot be possessed by/or sold to minors.
In some states, when purchasing such a spray, the buyer must complete a standard registration form, and the vendor must forward the form to the Metropolitan Police Department.
Examples:
In Massachusetts: to sell or possess "ammunition", a license is required. Therefore, the unlicensed sale, or the unlicensed use of self-defense sprays is illegal. Residents may only purchase defense sprays from licensed Firearms Dealers in that state. Same in New York.... etc. United States Pepper Spray Laws and Restrictions
???
Apathy is not the answer friend, where does thou hail from?
God helps those who help themselves.
Apparently, Europeans are fine with not being able to defend themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
That is true in some cases, but using an illegal weapon has nothing to do with that. I haven't noticed any protests in Denmark regarding the illegality of pepper spray, and the girl's use of it wasn't a protest.
You're right. She was just trying to stop a rapist from raping her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox
So what, then, was she supposed to have done instead?
I guess they'll say, "Ask him nicely not to rape her."
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban
What did we Americans do to deserve your wrath
I am an American. And I am talking about our open borders, non-vetting of Muslims who come in and commit terrorist acts (Tashfeen Maleek), etc.
If Americans want this to continue, then they (we) deserve what they get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis
I think there is a basic misunderstanding surrounding the case. The girl doesn't get punished because she defended herself.
She was arrested/questioned for carrying an illegal weapon, which is completely unrelated to the act of self-defense.
A weapon has no relation to defending oneself?
Amazing. Europe is even further gone than I thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah
aww pepper spray is so awful. how inhumane to temporarily blind someone who's trying to rape or murder you.
I know.
The very idea makes me feel the need to go to crisis counseling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
The security situation in Europe hasn't been altered due to the refugee crisis. Europe is as safe as it used to be.
Oh, I'm sure it is.
Again, I don't care about what happens to Europeans anymore.
Apparently, Europeans are fine with not being able to defend themselves.
You're right. She was just trying to stop a rapist from raping her.
I guess they'll say, "Ask him nicely not to rape her."
I am an American. And I am talking about our open borders, non-vetting of Muslims who come in and commit terrorist acts (Tashfeen Maleek), etc.
If Americans want this to continue, then they (we) deserve what they get.
A weapon has no relation to defending oneself?
Amazing. Europe is even further gone than I thought.
I know.
The very idea makes me feel the need to go to crisis counseling.
Oh, I'm sure it is.
Again, I don't care about what happens to Europeans anymore.
They don't deserve my concern.
Believe me, there are many Europeans that are concerned with what is happening.
It's just that we get the hard left fighting those with common sense (IMO) all the way.
Unfortunately, the hard left seems to have their grips on the main steam media (MSM), in the EU government, and in some of the local governments in the North of Europe. Anyone who deviates from the multicultural utopian dream is shut down by calling them racists, Nazis, etc. Alternatively, other tactics the hard left use are trying to deflect topics away from any valid concerns, or deny there are any problems at all! I'm sure you have probably seen these responses in some of the threads relating to the migration crises in this forum.
Raising concerns in public can also affect your job/career in certain parts of Europe (due to the racist stigma).
Europe desperately needs some strong and non-PC politicians (but not racists - just straight talking and 'calling a spade a spade') willing to bite the bullet, and receive a lot of abuse from the hard left (and from those invested in making money from the crises like human rights lawyers and certain charities) to sort this mess out.
Believe me, there are many Europeans that are concerned with what is happening.
It's just that we get the hard left fighting those with common sense (IMO) all the way.
Unfortunately, the hard left seems to have their grips on the main steam media (MSM), in the EU government, and in some of the local governments in the North of Europe. Anyone who deviates from the multicultural utopian dream is shut down by calling them racists, Nazis, etc. Alternatively, other tactics the hard left use are trying to deflect topics away from any valid concerns, or deny there are any problems at all! I'm sure you have probably seen these responses in some of the threads relating to the migration crises in this forum.
Raising concerns in public can also affect your job/career in certain parts of Europe (due to the racist stigma).
Europe desperately needs some strong and non-PC politicians (but not racists - just straight talking and 'calling a spade a spade') willing to bite the bullet, and receive a lot of abuse from the hard left (and from those invested in making money from the crises like human rights lawyers and certain charities) to sort this mess out.
Thank you!
Fantastic post.
Maybe it's time for sensible Europeans to migrate east to countries like Hungary, Czech Republic and Poland that recognize the problem in a way that Western Europe (esp. Germany, Scandinavia and Britain) don't recognize it.
We could do a protest but what else can we do online??
Any ideas??
People can help easily for example by sending e-mails to covernment, court and to police. If everyone who comments on the news sites, would comment straight to the covernment, court and police, message would be heard better. This is also how organizations and private people generally works when they are trying to make a change. If not anything else, it usually works as discussion opening "eek , the other world judges us, should we investicate if we could do better" in covernment level and that is actually the level what is to reach for.
It could be also snail mail card or letter, it could be just a short note or map full of evidences why this thing is wrong and if anyone knows how things in denmark are working, then take a step 1 via the options that they are offering for making a change. It could be open petitions, make official openings, suggestions, motions, offer lectures or consultation by video connection, what ever what your time and skills are able to do.
Try to connect with local woman rights etc. organizations and local people who are trying to make a change in Denmark and offer your help. It could be also something what works via attackers side: more behaviour training and culture adapting classes to seekers etc. In any case International pressure is always the best way... spend stamps everyone
You really think that a rapist doesn't get punished? What makes you think so besides being polemic?
I'm not hearing about any punishment for him.
So what happened?
Was he sent to counseling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox
There wasn't anything vague about the story to me. It seems fairly straightforward. She bought pepper spray because she feared for her safety, an assailant pushed her to the ground and attempted to rape her, she used the pepper spray in self defense, and now she faces charges. What am I misunderstanding here? The outrageousness of the outcome is fairly self-evident to me. I don't dispute the law was broken but it is a law that is severely out of touch with the reality of Western Europe in 2016. This is clearly a gross miscarriage of justice.
Exactly.
She should get a medal for defending herself.
Quote:
Edited to add: and yes, the pepper spray was the cause-in-fact of the self defense so they are most definitely related. But for her possessing the pepper spray, she would not have been able to adequately defend herself. So yes she is being punished for defending herself.
Just so.
But you're not allowed to defend yourself in Western Europe if you're....well....European.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
I'm European and I've lived all my life in Europe. The security situation has not changed. Tragedies happen and they must be prevented, but there is no reason to feel unsafe in Germany or Sweden.
Don't come crying to me when that turns out to be untrue.
Quote:
Pepper spray is illegal in most EU countries. There is also not any reason why it should be legal.
Yeah, why be able to defend yourself?
Don't you deserve to be attacked?
I mean, after all, you're European.
How naughty of you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
An assault charge I'd assume would have a much harsher punishment than an illegal weapon. It would be a bit contradictory to have an illegal weapon law and then not charge people for using their weapons in "good ways". The same combination applies in American cities that ban carrying guns and certain knives, no clue how likely someone would be prosecuted for using an illegal for self-defense in say, New York City. In case, the penalty of 500 kroner is equivalent to $73.
I'm shocked that it is so little.
She should be severely punished for not allowing herself to be raped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen
It should be a shame if europeans can defends themself against poor and lovely refugees. You can imagine the drama if a migrant (who are a luck for our society) is injuried why raping or stealing.
I know! LOL
The poor rapist might scrape his knees!
Isn't there something that can be done to help him??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztecgoddess
Please don't shrug mister Atlas.
Stupidity is an interesting thing.
It means a lot of people don't get the obvious.
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
lol
finland is not safe, there is attacks all the time, news , news, even they do their all to hide them....
True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
This. Amnesty should be worried of originals rights .. How anyone can make the turn that natives are kept, viewed and judged as racist so badly that for example england did not protect their own kids? Could it be that this blaming of history-card (nazi etc.) worked actually too well?
Exactly.
All white Europeans are Nazis who deserve what they get.
All white Americans are racists who deserve what they get.
That's what the ruling elites say.
BTW, call me a Nazi, and I'll just laugh at whoever does that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict
I am sure while her panties were being forced down and the rapist was pressing his manhood into her loins, she was thinking, "I feel like a glass of red wine and perhaps spraying this rapist with pepper spray. I suppose I'll have the glass of wine first, then spray my attacker... no, on second thought, I'll spray my rapist first, THEN have the glass of wine. Oh, I am so fickle and silly!"
LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catbelle
...this political correctness is destroying Europe, as a thread said.
Same thing in the U.S.
I hope Trump wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
Actually if you read social medias in europe you could see people don't necessarily agree with law and punishments much. People are not happy but coverments does not want to make changes.
So get together, form networks, and throw the bums out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM
Whosoever has voted for Green or Social Democratic parties is partly to blame for the current situation, Germany had quite a liberal gun law until the 70s when the Social Democratic Party adopted the 3rd Reich gun laws in reaction to leftist terror of the so called "RAF"; if it were to the Green party they would even ban blank guns and pepperspray. Feminism is part of the problem, feminism demonized white men and family values, now the savage is at the door and who will help?
You can count on the liberals and leftists to screw everything up.
Europe went soft after WW II.
The "evil" United States (which never wanted to have anything to do with Europe) defended it from the Soviets, and the Europeans thought that they could look down on the "crude, uncultured" Americans and create a liberal-left paradise.
Well, that is coming to an end.
Europe, you're going to have to defend yourself.
And inviting a bunch of savages into your countries who rape women, etc., is not the best way to do that.
Just sayin'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oh-eve
It's a small group of politicians that allow it. The citizen of those countries are speechless and in shock but what can they do?
What can they do????
Do what Americans did when they didn't like the way England was running things.
Organize, make sacrifices, fight!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuuKulgur
So in conclusion, you should put the well-being of the perp (especially if not of European origin) and the rule of law, as stupid and retarded in might be in some instances, about your own safety or even life.
...
Yep, that's what they do in Europe.
I can't believe it...but....no.....I can -- because it's happening in America, too, thanks to the leftists, liberals and capitalist elites who want cheap labor and social division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis
An assault charge would lead to no punishment since she acted out of self-defense. But you pretty much sum up the point I wanted to make.
What if she carried a gun instead of a pepper spray. The gun would have offered her protection too. But I certainly wouldn't want everyone to be armed.
Why not?
She would have done a great service to society if she had killed the rapist.
Quote:
They were right to charge the girl since that's simply the law.
Ridiculous.
Just because something is "the law" doesn't mean it's right.
Quote:
The law isn't always fair, but that's the way it is.
Wow.
When I hear things like this, I again say that Europeans aren't worth defending or caring about.
Quote:
I wouldn't want to see the headlines, if they found out that every Moroccan in Denmark is carrying one of those sprays...
So kick out the non-Danish people.
Problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis
I worked for a criminal court in Vienna, wrote some judgments myself and had to deal with rapists - amongst those some pedophiles.
I can assure you that none of them got a suspended sentence.
So were they sent to counseling?
Or was that too harsh?
What are prisons like in Austria?
Somehow, I'm not thinking that criminals have much to fear....
Last edited by dechatelet; 01-29-2016 at 04:35 AM..
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