I do not do those house wife things. (ladies, spouses, emotionally)
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From Biblical times women cooked and cleaned, bottom line. I don't understand women who refuse to do it. Whether or not men are equal contributors is a different conversation, I'm only talking about women. If you read the original thread, the woman says: "he wants me to do housewife things". She just simply doesn't want to do what is basic necessities and what would make any man happy. That's what I'm talking about.
My husband and I also like to cook together. I'm better with meats, he is better with vegetables. Our personal examples I don't feel are relevant.
We don't live in biblical times anymore and since the early Women's Liberation Movement we are seeing a new paradigm in women's roles.
As more and more women work, the roles have to adapt and change. Traditionalists balk at the idea but there are many of us, both men and women who embrace the freedom that throwing off the shackles of the old way has given us.
It's quite the leap to say that because I hate cooking and don't do it, that I don't love my husband care if he dies, or am not a good wife. I don't define a marriage based on who does what chores around the house.
I get Max's Mama's posts because that's where we come from (her and I).
But our postulates don't always apply here. In fact, life here (in North Am) has forced me to start re-examining "the postulates".
People over there have their soul and emotions as their source. People over here rely more on mind and logic.
Neither is right or wrong, just like at one time having a warm Max's mama's shoulder to cry on is fine, - and at other times slicing it down with facts and logic is fine, too.
Let's be realistic here -- most people do cook, clean and do laundry because those things are just necessary. We all do them because we have to. And it's not true that American women have forsaken cooking and forgot how to keep a home, since most homes I've seen are very clean, people in my office don't look like bums, and the lines at Wholefoods and various gourmet supermarkets defy the notion that we are undergoing some sort of societal catastrophe of women's (gasp!) refusal to cook. (At any rate, neither gender dominates those shopping lines, and I doubt all that cooking is done by unloved husbands.) And I live in a place that has more feminists per square inch than the Lillith Fair. Nor do I know of any divorce initiated simply because someone didn't want to do household chores.
What I'm trying to say, OP, is that you simply don't know the context of that woman's statement, and it therefore gives you no basis to jump to that sweeping conclusion about Womanhood Today. Despite the fact that most people do what's necessary in life and enjoy doing things for those they love, there are women who don't like the idea of servitude. These women are usually married to men who become especially messy when they get their own live-in butler; husbands who drop garbage anywhere they feel like because they can't be bothered to put it in the waste basket; husbands who talk about their wives' jobs as if they are recreation, despite the fact that the family heavily relies on her earnings; husbands who regard the evening hours and weekends as the time when the wife cooks and cleans, and the time when he "decompresses".
Even with a good, attentive, supportive husband, though, not everyone wants to be defined through servitude. I have no beef with women who express their love in the best way they know how and are happy with the way things work in their marriages -- but they should know that there is nothing extreme or immoral in thinking it unfair that a woman's worth, as a woman and a wife, should be defined exclusively through her performance of (mostly) low-skilled, dirty, and intellectually unstimulating labor. Again -- not that we should never do it, but not all of us equate being a good wife with enthusiasm for towel-folding.
Women should not have the monopoly on caring -- and men should not have the monopoly on being cared about overtly. Both spouses, however they divide their household chores, should be treated with respect and consideration. And in the "traditional" arrangement -- as it existed since Biblical times -- respect for what women do is often lacking. It's evident even in the language that people (often women themselves) employ. One poster a few pages back, arguing in favor of traditional marriage, put it this way: men work and women keep the house. I don't believe in unnecessarily latching on to words at the expense of the substance -- but that said, it is interesting how vividly language sometimes reflects biases. "Keeping" implies passivity -- sitting there to call 911 in the event of a burglary (to summon men to deal with it). We all know, of course, that "keeping the house" also involves cooking, cleaning, laundry, gardening, repairs and shopping, and perhaps also child care and education, but somehow none of it is characterized as "work" -- because "working" is something only men do. I pick on how the poster phrased this because it's not really her deliberate word choice, but how it's usually phrased -- that men work and women don't, even though women do. It demonstrates two things: that we as a society define work not through effort or material benefit, but simply through the given activity's ability to generate cash; and, more importantly, that women's work in a "traditional" household often goes unacknowledged.
You can see further evidence of this in how "traditionalists" describe married women who have careers as "selfish". Those of you who like to say that: stop and think for a moment how absurd that accusation is. Barring those few instances of marriages where the spouses actually keep separate finances, career women earn incomes that go to benefit the family: to pay the mortgage, the children's educations and many of the benefits, comforts and luxuries that the family wouldn't have with only one paycheck. So again, even when it does generate cash, and even a lot of cash, women's work is not acknowledged as such. Or maybe career women are accused of being "selfish" because they derive personal satisfaction from work, that's not connected to wiping anyone's butt. But again, while I will not try to convert women who are content to exist vicariously through others and only enable their men's self-fulfillment, never their own, they should nevertheless realize that it's neither extreme nor unfair for other women to want more than that out of life.
And that's what it really comes down to: appreciation, basic fairness in distributing household chores and the ability to enjoy without guilt things that don't have an immediate connection to serving others. I don't think that wanting these things makes women evil, radical or bad wives.
Why is it automatically assumed that a woman should do wife things? Domestic duties should be agreed upon depending on who is good at what and who is working most or at all and has more time. I dont believe doing "wife things" should be EXPECTED just because someone dosent have a penis. Just as bringing home the bacon, mowing the lawn, changing the oil should not be EXPECTED just because someone does.
I certainly hope so. I will never understand why a woman should find joy in nothing but working and cleaning up after a husband and kids. Men find joy in activities outside family, golf, fishing, sports, gym, haning out with the guys or hobbies and never even think about what a joy it would be to scrub the toliet until it shines or make homemade bread for their family instead of watching tv. Personally, Im glad young women today are raised knowing they are individuals with ideas and desires and capabilities beyond cooking and cleaning and wipping snotty noses.
Yeah, what 2mares said! ^^^
When changes come about in society, there are always some who will take it a bit too far. A man who "expects" his wife to handle all of the domestic chores (because they're women's work) has taken things way too far. A women who thinks, "We've come a long way baby" and doesn't have any maternal instincts, even though she gave birth to children, has "gone too far". There needs to be a happy medium here.
I've said it before.....Why is it so difficult to understand that all women do NOT get a sense of satisfaction and orgasmic pleasure from cleaning up after her family day in and day out, and cooking for them? It is no different than men who don't work on their cars and/or do all of the yard work, all of the carpentry/plumbing/electrical repairs around the house because it makes them feel completely fulfilled!
From Biblical times women cooked and cleaned, bottom line. I don't understand women who refuse to do it. Whether or not men are equal contributors is a different conversation, I'm only talking about women. If you read the original thread, the woman says: "he wants me to do housewife things". She just simply doesn't want to do what is basic necessities and what would make any man happy. That's what I'm talking about.
My husband and I also like to cook together. I'm better with meats, he is better with vegetables. Our personal examples I don't feel are relevant.
In Biblical times they hit children, and I've gathered from your other posts that you don't follow that paradigm.
The original poster also said she can't understand why a woman wouldn't have satisfaction "dying a little to oneself" in order to please her man. We also got no information about whether or not that woman in question worked 12 hour days outside the home while her husband worked 6 and still wanted her to clean, or whether he would come home and berate her for a speck of dirt on the floor, or what.
I don't think a woman who refuses to do any household tasks is being any more or less ridiculous than a man who refuses to do them. In either case I would hope that any adult in the household would be doing necessary tasks or figure out another way to achieve the same effect (for some, I suppose that would be hiring a cleaning service).
I could never be a part of a partnership where the man expected me to take prime responsibility of the household tasks. Those "any men" who derive happiness from having women cook and clean is not mine, luckily. He'd be rolling on the floor laughing if I suggested it was my duty to make him happy by ironing his shirts, if he wasn't completely insulted by the insinuation that that was something I thought was very important in our relationship.
Yeah, what 2mares said! ^^^
When changes come about in society, there are always some who will take it a bit too far. A man who "expects" his wife to handle all of the domestic chores (because they're women's work) has taken things way too far. A women who thinks, "We've come a long way baby" and doesn't have any maternal instincts, even though she gave birth to children, has "gone too far". There needs to be a happy medium here.
I've said it before.....Why is it so difficult to understand that all women do NOT get a sense of satisfaction and orgasmic pleasure from cleaning up after her family day in and day out, and cooking for them? It is no different than men who don't work on their cars and/or do all of the yard work, all of the carpentry/plumbing/electrical repairs around the house because it makes them feel completely fulfilled!
I notice that you say women who don't have any maternal instincts, yet have children have gone too far. I take this to mean that you have no problem with women who have no maternal instincts and have no children...at least I hope that's what you mean. I have no maternal instinct, no interest in children, etc. and I think that should be perfectly acceptable.
I agree that many women also expect men to do certain things which is just as bad
Yes, it is as bad but it seems to be acceptable for women to demand/expect all those things from men and if men don't go with it, they are not gentlemen, real men, etc. Women will expect men to pay for their drinks, meals, open their doors, pull their chairs, offer their coats, propose marriage, buy them an engagement ring, and so on and on. Still, that is not considered bad. I totally support women's opinion that house chores is a couple's job, not only a woman's job (unless she's a stay home wife, then she shouldn't be complaining), but can women agree that what they expect/demand from men (which I mentioned in this paragraph) should also be mutual and not just something exclusive for women?
Yes, it is as bad but it seems to be acceptable for women to demand/expect all those things from men and if men don't go with it, they are not gentlemen, real men, etc. Women will expect men to pay for their drinks, meals, open their doors, pull their chairs, offer their coats, propose marriage, buy them an engagement ring, and so on and on. Still, that is not considered bad. I totally support women's opinion that house chores is a couple's job, not only a woman's job (unless she's a stay home wife, then she shouldn't be complaining), but can women agree that what they expect/demand from men (which I mentioned in this paragraph) should also be mutual and not just something exclusive for women?
I agree. And most of the women my age that I know don't expect that from their men. Except for the engagement ring thing. But some people don't even do a ring.
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Domestic duties should be agreed upon depending on who is good at what and who is working most or at all and has more time. I dont believe doing "wife things" should be EXPECTED just because someone dosent have a penis. Just as bringing home the bacon, mowing the lawn, changing the oil should not be EXPECTED just because someone does. 
Women will expect men to pay for their drinks, meals, open their doors, pull their chairs, offer their coats, propose marriage, buy them an engagement ring, and so on and on. Still, that is not considered bad. I totally support women's opinion that house chores is a couple's job, not only a woman's job (unless she's a stay home wife, then she shouldn't be complaining), but can women agree that what they expect/demand from men (which I mentioned in this paragraph) should also be mutual and not just something exclusive for women?
