Orlando gay massacre - by a Muslim. Christian perspectives are? (procreation, married)

[wallflash]

Originally Posted by Vizio

And I hope their congregations got up and walked out.

You're now saying that they are guilty because they were present when it was said. You watched the video, didn't you? Does that make YOU someone that wants to kill gay people?

Grow up and have an adult discussion or don't bother responding . This kind of BS is childish . The people in the pew heard the preacher preach . Does that make them guilty simply by hearing ? No , and nothing I said suggested that , so either grow up or don't bother with any more of these level infantile posts . But what happened AFTER they heard the sermon? Did they leave the church? Did they meet and ask the pastor to leave ? What ?

To contrast, an evangelical preacher recently preached about finding a way to include gays the church without condemnation . He was quickly suspended and eventually fired . Now that is their right , but my point is that when the pastor said something they didn't like, he was gone . So , how many of these hate filled preachers can you show me that have been suspended or fired by their outraged congregations ?

Good grief, I'll remind you that it was a MUSLIM that shot up and killed 49 people --not some redneck pastor, nor any Christians. it was a MUSLIM.

And I'll remind you , AGAIN , what the title of the OP is . Do you not understand the connection between the title of the OP and Christian pastors responding with hate filled messages ?

I've not seen Jeff make ANY statement about celebrating the killing of gay people. YOU, on the other hand, seem delighted to post such tripe. Why is that? Are you a homophobe wanting to kill gay people?

Again, grow up or leave the adults to discuss the issues . I didn't say Jeff celebrated the deaths of gays . Again , READ what is said and respond to THAT, or quit wasting people's time .

I'll again say that I have yet to meet any Christian that wants to do something like this.

And yet people have linked numerous videos for you to see this first hand .

I honestly don't care to follow them like you apparently do. I wonder why you're so preoccupied with people that spout hate speech. Are you a homophobe?

Have you really become such a lame poster that you seek to equate pointing out the hate speech of homophobes with being a homophobe ? Are you that far gone ?

By your logic, those that opposed and pointed out RCC priests abusing boys are secretly child abusers themselves . Welcome to the world of fundy Christianity .


And just for the record , let's remember which poster here was posting about preachers making the news for their hate speech, and which poster made the discussion personal by questioning if I was a homophobe because I read the news and notice the hate preachers .

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by Vizio

There is no law that states that one MUST bake a cake for a wedding.

On the contrary, the 1st Amendment does state that we have a right religion. Weird, huh?

That depends on where you are....No matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/t...-of-appearance

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by Vizio

There is no law that states that one MUST bake a cake for a wedding.

On the contrary, the 1st Amendment does state that we have a right religion. Weird, huh?

I don't really know what the laws are but if that Baker had to pay that money, I figured he must have broken some kind of law because he lost his case.

[Vizio]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

I don't really know what the laws are but if that Baker had to pay that money, I figured he must have broken some kind of law because he lost his case.

I would suggest that it had more to do with liberal judges reading the law to suit their own bias than anything else.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Did you forget what thread you are in, Jeff??? That is NOT the basic tenet that is referred to. It is the one that asserts homosexuals are an abomination to God and deserving of death, remember? It is the one you keep defending even after the massacre in Orlando. THAT is violent and ugly, jeff.

Originally Posted by Vizio

I have never seen Jeff state that anyone is justified in killing a gay person. Can you please quote that post, or link to it?

Come on, Vizio. Get real. Jeff is DEFENDING the Bible verses that say homosexuals are an abomination to God and deserve death. As a pastor, I am sure you are familiar with them. You have been shown videos of your fellow pastors advocating them.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Vizio

As the Chief Executive of this country, he takes the lead in regards to things like this. He has proven over and over that his plan of dealing with terrorism has failed. So, yes--he's an ineffective president in regards to homeland safety.

In what way has it failed? You are more likely to be run over by a car than gunned down by a terrorist. I daresay you've never been attacked by one.

Originally Posted by Vizio

What would tighter gun control laws do? Chicago has the toughest gun control laws in the country and it has murders happen every single night.

Parroting Trumpisms I see. The problem is that gun control is only one part of the picture. Guns are exceptionally easy to obtain just outside the city, and the city is rife with gangs, which are adept at obtaining guns illegally. Chicago's gun control laws actually need to spread to all of Illinois and at least southern Wisconsin and NW Indiana, and it needs to effectively address structural racism and poverty issues before it will see a reduction in violence.

Originally Posted by Vizio

Or they can just go to the streets of Chicago and buy a gun. Despite very tight gun control laws, gang members in Chicago have no problem getting them.

As I just said. Two wrongs (arming people to the teeth and failing to address root sources of ghetto violence) don't make a right.

Originally Posted by Vizio

We fault Obama for his lack of interest and his ineffectiveness at going after ISIS. He has declared them to be the "JV Team", and said they're "Contained"...and then they continue to hit places like France (where you can't buy a gun, btw), Belgium, and now a gay nightclub in Orlando, FL.

I don't have a problem with those critiques, but at the same time, I'll take his measured and relatively fact-based approach over batsh_t crazy ideas like Muslim bans and Mexican walls and injecting MORE guns into the violence, any day.

Originally Posted by Vizio

And the crying shame in it all is that you blame Christians and the GOP for what a radical MUSLIM (and registered Democrat) does.

Except that we don't blame Christians and the GOP for pulling the trigger, but for fostering a climate where these things happen far more often than they need to. And we've repeatedly explained that we are not trying to get you to take responsibility for pulling the trigger. We would be grateful if you would at least take responsibility for cutting the hate speech and working for common-sense goals that will reduce the probability of it happening again.

[southernbored]

Originally Posted by Vizio

I would suggest that it had more to do with liberal judges reading the law to suit their own bias than anything else.

Yes, yes.... We all know it is always the liberals fault in your mind. Typical fundamentalist/Fox News parrot.


We all know that you would rather have nothing but conservative judges reading the law to suit their own bias, but hey... the world isn't perfect, right?

[jjrose]

Originally Posted by Vizio

I would suggest that it had more to do with liberal judges reading the law to suit their own bias than anything else.

Considering the law says that you can not deny goods or services to anyone based on their sexual orientation. It isn't really a tough read.

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by Vizio

I would suggest that it had more to do with liberal judges reading the law to suit their own bias than anything else.

Yeah, I suppose I didn't consider that.

[jeffbase40]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

There would no sin be in you making a gay cake, IN FACT, there would be sin in you refusing to make a gay cake.

Would Jesus have made a bed frame for the prostitute to use when serving her customers? I would be ashamed to stand before God and admit that I assisted in making the celebration of an immoral ceremony a success and even made profit off of it.

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

Unless you have some other idea of sin, we are commanded to follow the laws of the land and that's it, and love even goes further in being everything to every man.

And we also have the right to protest when the law of the land is unfair. The law you favor conflicts with the already existing law of religious freedom.

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

That doesn't mean you have to turn gay or even agree with what gays are doing, but through your own sacrifice when you turn to love instead of rudeness, then you show who you really are.

Something tells me that you wouldn't think it is rudeness to deny service to a sex offender. Whenever it involves something you disprove of, then it is totally different, huh?

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

There are two outcomes.


Those gay people would say,'' Wow, we know Jeff is not a supporter of the gay community but look, he showed love anyway, and he proves that he is a lawful citizen.


Those gay people would say,'' Wow, does Jeff think he's going to hell if he bakes a cake? Is his God that bad? You talk about rude, I thought Jeff said Jesus was about love and Jeff is a freaking lawbreaker, what kind of man breaks the law of man and God and then looks at me funny, yup, love huh.''


Hope you don't take to much offence by this Jeff, just looking at outcomes.

Or the gay people could simply respect someone's deeply held beliefs and walk away. From my perspective, it's no different than if I ate at some Asian restaurant and I was refused service unless I showed respect by removing my shoes.