Oakland Projects and Business Development (Berkeley, Brea: budget, parks, skyscraper)

[mini_cute]

Originally Posted by CirclingLogan

This. Some of you on here are so short-sighted. Even if there were just empty blocks, the distance from 12th to HT is not very far. However, when people are walking from public transport to a large event, the "feel" of the distance is only how far it takes to get into the thick of things. Once people start seeing lively bars and restaurants, they may as well be walking through the stadium. Ideally, if the park were to go in, Broadway -- on both the downtown and JLS side -- would fill up with establishments, creating an active funnel for people getting off BART to enjoy while they make their way to the park. In fact, I would argue a short distance to walk is BETTER, as people are forced to experience the city and potentially have a drink or dinner, rather than the suburban mentality of jumping off BART, going into the stadium, and jumping right back on BART, which, in effect, is very much like the drive-and-park mentality.

Honestly, native and long-time Californians, I love you, but your understanding of how cities work seems to have been skewed by seven decades of auto-centric planning.

As Sav858 said in her reply, AT&T Park may not be that close to a BART station, but it has the Caltrain station and 2 muni stops next to it. Not to mention it is next to the embarcadero and steps from the Ferry Building. The Howard Terminal location and AT&T Park location really are not the same in terms of transit, access, and amenities (current and potential).

Also your last statement is inaccurate. My view on the location is not skewed by decades of auto-centric planning. If you knew me, you'd know I am anti-car planning and an active bike activist and urbanist. And I have not only lived in California (lived in the only true urban city in the US, NYC). So your generalization doesn't apply to me.

The reason why I don't like that location as much anymore is because it is next to the Port of Oakland. I thought it was going to be a beautiful spot convenient to downtown Oakland. But back in December, a cyclist was killed biking through there. She rode in the bike lane, had a multitude of bike lights on her bike and backpack and helmet, and was a skilled cyclist who obeyed the laws. She was killed by a large truck leaving the Port of Oakland. I realized after that, that mixing the Port of Oakland with non-car traffic could be a troublesome mix.

I can also see why Lew Wolff has reservations. There is a conflicting interest in that area. Ballpark uses vs. Port of Oakland uses. If it came down to it, Port of Oakland uses would probably win out over ballpark uses.

But I am curious to hear from you all, what is so bad about the Coliseum location anyway?

[sav858]

Originally Posted by mini_cute

But I am curious to hear from you all, what is so bad about the Coliseum location anyway?

It's in the middle of the ghetto and there is nothing remotely walkable nearby. It will never be able to provide that same "downtown ballpark experience" a lot of places do today.

[wooliemonster]

I don't know anything about sports, but any large project that serves as a catalyst for the Broadway Streetcar (with legs on 3rd in JLS) and large scale redevelopment is worth consideration. The truck issues could probably be mitigated through routing.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by mini_cute

But I am curious to hear from you all, what is so bad about the Coliseum location anyway?

Originally Posted by sav858

It's in the middle of the ghetto and there is nothing remotely walkable nearby. It will never be able to provide that same "downtown ballpark experience" a lot of places do today.

The Coliseum, although great from a transit perspective, it is surrounded by parking lots and you don't have an opportunity to easily have an "experience" in the neighborhood. There isn't anything to do besides go to Walmart, and that isn't even easily connected to the Coliseum due to the fact the Oakland Airport Connecter eliminated the infill spots that were promised on the original proposal approved by voters.

[borninamess]

Originally Posted by sav858

Also AT&T is across the street from a Muni Metro stop which connects to BART and Caltrain so it's a pretty bad point to bring up BART's distance from that stadium as a comparison either way. An infill BART station would be nice but that would likely be upwards of $100 million more but with the redevelopment potential something could probably be done to help pay for it similar to how they helped pay for the West Dublin infill station.

the t-line didn't exist until 2007, the stadium opened in 2003. there is a plan on the books to build a light rail right down that street. this will kick start it.

[Obamadon1]

Originally Posted by borninamess

the t-line didn't exist until 2007, the stadium opened in 2003. there is a plan on the books to build a light rail right down that street. this will kick start it.

Stadium opened in 1999.

[borninamess]

Originally Posted by mini_cute

As Sav858 said in her reply, AT&T Park may not be that close to a BART station, but it has the Caltrain station and 2 muni stops next to it. Not to mention it is next to the embarcadero and steps from the Ferry Building. The Howard Terminal location and AT&T Park location really are not the same in terms of transit, access, and amenities (current and potential).

Also your last statement is inaccurate. My view on the location is not skewed by decades of auto-centric planning. If you knew me, you'd know I am anti-car planning and an active bike activist and urbanist. And I have not only lived in California (lived in the only true urban city in the US, NYC). So your generalization doesn't apply to me.

The reason why I don't like that location as much anymore is because it is next to the Port of Oakland. I thought it was going to be a beautiful spot convenient to downtown Oakland. But back in December, a cyclist was killed biking through there. She rode in the bike lane, had a multitude of bike lights on her bike and backpack and helmet, and was a skilled cyclist who obeyed the laws. She was killed by a large truck leaving the Port of Oakland. I realized after that, that mixing the Port of Oakland with non-car traffic could be a troublesome mix.

I can also see why Lew Wolff has reservations. There is a conflicting interest in that area. Ballpark uses vs. Port of Oakland uses. If it came down to it, Port of Oakland uses would probably win out over ballpark uses.

But I am curious to hear from you all, what is so bad about the Coliseum location anyway?

it is .5 miles from the oakland jack london ferry terminal to the howard terminal location.

it is 1.2 miles from the sf ferry terminal to att park.

when att park was first built, there was NOTHING down there. nothing. nada. zip. there is a reason why my ladyfriend's photography studio was able to get a masssssssive studio space 2 blocks from the stadium in 1998 for next to $3000 and when they left last year the landlord rented it for $15k a month. the buildings are there, and if the stadium comes, the development will follow.

tons of people ride that route everyday and nothing happens to them. while what happen to that woman is a real tragedy, its not indicative of what the experience will be for the bulk of people.

[borninamess]

Originally Posted by Obamadon1

Stadium opened in 1999.

you are correct i wasn't sure and misread when i looked it up

[athleticsfan72737489]

Originally Posted by sav858

Also AT&T is across the street from a Muni Metro stop which connects to BART and Caltrain so it's a pretty bad point to bring up BART's distance from that stadium as a comparison either way. An infill BART station would be nice but that would likely be upwards of $100 million more but with the redevelopment potential something could probably be done to help pay for it similar to how they helped pay for the West Dublin infill station.

I think you're forgetting about plans to build a streetcar up and down Broadway.

Streetcars Might Make a Comeback in Oakland | Politics and Breaking News | Oakland, Berkeley, Bay Area & California | Seven Days

The Oakland Streetcar Plan - Home

[Obamadon1]

Originally Posted by athleticsfan72737489

I think you're forgetting about plans to build a streetcar up and down Broadway.

Streetcars Might Make a Comeback in Oakland | Politics and Breaking News | Oakland, Berkeley, Bay Area & California | Seven Days

The Oakland Streetcar Plan - Home

They aren't "plans" so much as "wouldn't it be cool if we brought back a streetcar." Mixed traffic streetcar, while cool, would almost certainly be a colossal waste of money.