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Old 08-13-2019, 09:03 AM
bu2
 
10,214 posts, read 6,562,222 times
Reputation: 4311

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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
I have no idea where you got any of this. Where did I say blocking a car is bad, but a playground is good. I think I've bene pretty clear. It's really not as hard as you're making it. In 99% of cases, you simply get them to move. You don't have to restrain them or put them behind bars. If they repeatedly refuse, or become violent, then you can charge them with trespassing. And only in that case would you have to resort to "locked minimum security involuntary shelters", which sound almost exactly like "jail".

People sleeping under a bridge or in an alley or on an empty lot are not causing anyone any harm, as long as they are keeping to themselves and not leaving a mess. I see zero reason they should be forced into jai...sorry "minimum security shelters".
Agreed.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:24 PM
 
10,736 posts, read 7,619,040 times
Reputation: 3331
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
I have no idea where you got any of this. Where did I say blocking a car is bad, but a playground is good. I think I've bene pretty clear. It's really not as hard as you're making it. In 99% of cases, you simply get them to move. You don't have to restrain them or put them behind bars. If they repeatedly refuse, or become violent, then you can charge them with trespassing. And only in that case would you have to resort to "locked minimum security involuntary shelters", which sound almost exactly like "jail".

People sleeping under a bridge or in an alley or on an empty lot are not causing anyone any harm, as long as they are keeping to themselves and not leaving a mess. I see zero reason they should be forced into jai...sorry "minimum security shelters".
So now you don't want to enforce trespassing laws if they are on private property? If someone starts setting up camp in your yard or front door step every night the police do nothing about it?

How do you decide when they are not causing harm to anyone? The person sleeping in your front yard is not harming anyone. The person sleeping in your child's favorite play structure is not harming anyone.

And yes, "minimum security shelters" are a form of jail. The main difference from other minimum security jails is that people can stay their voluntarily too in order to get access to shelter, food, water, healthcare, and other services.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Duluth, GA
1,265 posts, read 1,006,023 times
Reputation: 1218
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So now you don't want to enforce trespassing laws if they are on private property? If someone starts setting up camp in your yard or front door step every night the police do nothing about it?
Wouldn't having the police enforce trespassing laws be at the discretion of the owner of said private property?
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:05 AM
 
1,674 posts, read 1,754,712 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So now you don't want to enforce trespassing laws if they are on private property? If someone starts setting up camp in your yard or front door step every night the police do nothing about it?
I found someone sleeping in my yard when I lived in an old house in Roswell. I made them food, and told them that they were safe sleeping on my property.

I think it’s vulgar for people who live in excess to deny the shelterless a place to sleep. I realize you want your monetary investment in Downtown to pay off but that doesn’t make it okay for you to lock up all of the impoverished people who have lived there longer than you.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:56 PM
 
5,225 posts, read 3,376,605 times
Reputation: 3483
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So now you don't want to enforce trespassing laws if they are on private property? If someone starts setting up camp in your yard or front door step every night the police do nothing about it?

How do you decide when they are not causing harm to anyone? The person sleeping in your front yard is not harming anyone. The person sleeping in your child's favorite play structure is not harming anyone.

And yes, "minimum security shelters" are a form of jail. The main difference from other minimum security jails is that people can stay their voluntarily too in order to get access to shelter, food, water, healthcare, and other services.
You are apparently not comprehending any of what I have written. I cannot continue to debate with someone who refuses to even try to comprehend words. If what you have gotten out of my statements is that we shouldn't enforce trespassing laws or that only causing harm is a reason to deal with people, then you aren't even trying to understand. Which, I mean, is par for the course. But still...wow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDeadParrot View Post
Wouldn't having the police enforce trespassing laws be at the discretion of the owner of said private property?
Pretty much exactly what I have said, but this is apparently a circus tent of funhouse mirrors and flawed logic.
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Old 08-17-2019, 06:49 PM
 
10,736 posts, read 7,619,040 times
Reputation: 3331
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
I found someone sleeping in my yard when I lived in an old house in Roswell. I made them food, and told them that they were safe sleeping on my property.

I think it’s vulgar for people who live in excess to deny the shelterless a place to sleep. I realize you want your monetary investment in Downtown to pay off but that doesn’t make it okay for you to lock up all of the impoverished people who have lived there longer than you.
I am quite happy you decided to provide for someone sleeping in your yard. I'd encourage you to do it more and for more people. Of course you might find that your local municipality has made it illegal for you to operate a shelter. I know some people that are involved with a great organization that have been trying to house abused women in your area that are having to fight all sort of legal battles with NIMBYs in that area that don't want that.

And actually, exactly what I am proposing is giving everyone access to shelter. Don't turn your nose up at the value of food, water, shelter, and healthcare just because it is labeled "jail" or "minimum security shelters".

Also, I'd wager I live with less "excess" than you do, so get off your high horse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDeadParrot View Post
Wouldn't having the police enforce trespassing laws be at the discretion of the owner of said private property?
Yep. Do you not think property owners should have that right?



And still, none of y'all are clarifying where the line should be for someone to get removed from camping on public property. "Doing no harm" could apply to about everyone. Including someone sleeping in the street in front of your driveway, or your child's favorite play structure.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:46 AM
 
489 posts, read 173,708 times
Reputation: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
I am quite happy you decided to provide for someone sleeping in your yard. I'd encourage you to do it more and for more people. Of course you might find that your local municipality has made it illegal for you to operate a shelter. I know some people that are involved with a great organization that have been trying to house abused women in your area that are having to fight all sort of legal battles with NIMBYs in that area that don't want that.

And actually, exactly what I am proposing is giving everyone access to shelter. Don't turn your nose up at the value of food, water, shelter, and healthcare just because it is labeled "jail" or "minimum security shelters".

Also, I'd wager I live with less "excess" than you do, so get off your high horse.




Yep. Do you not think property owners should have that right?



And still, none of y'all are clarifying where the line should be for someone to get removed from camping on public property. "Doing no harm" could apply to about everyone. Including someone sleeping in the street in front of your driveway, or your child's favorite play structure.



I feel more people would have respect for you and your argument if you just admitted you wanted to lock people up for being homeless. All the doubletalk and word salad to justify jailing people on the street is making you look even more despicable by the post.


It doesn’t matter what you call it - jail or “minimum security whatever “; you are still forcibly LOCKING PEOPLE UP FOR BEING HOMELESS. Where are they supposed to sleep JSVH? How about giving real options first before throwing them in jail?


This all or nothing approach sounds oddly similar to your anti-car rants with you wanting to toll before giving real options. Really off.

We know you own investment property in town. We know you have an agenda.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:29 AM
 
1,674 posts, read 1,754,712 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post

Also, I'd wager I live with less "excess" than you do, so get off your high horse.
I spent 100 nights living out of a Nissan Sentra in 2015. I seriously doubt you know what itís like to live with so little.
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:47 PM
 
10,736 posts, read 7,619,040 times
Reputation: 3331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otakumaster View Post
I feel more people would have respect for you and your argument if you just admitted you wanted to lock people up for being homeless. All the doubletalk and word salad to justify jailing people on the street is making you look even more despicable by the post.


It doesn’t matter what you call it - jail or “minimum security whatever “; you are still forcibly LOCKING PEOPLE UP FOR BEING HOMELESS. Where are they supposed to sleep JSVH? How about giving real options first before throwing them in jail?


This all or nothing approach sounds oddly similar to your anti-car rants with you wanting to toll before giving real options. Really off.

We know you own investment property in town. We know you have an agenda.
Oh, you think I am dancing around saying we should put the homeless in jail? I am not. We should put them in jail. But it still has to be done within the rule of law.

Where are people supposed to sleep? In jail / "minimum security shelters" where they are provided with food, water, shelter, and healthcare.

That "investment property" downtown is my home, thank you very much. Me and my neighbors downtown do far more for the homeless in the metro than any of your neighborhoods. How about y'all start by even making it legal for a homeless shleter to open in your neighborhood in the suburbs so so much of the burden is not on one small neighborhood.

Y'all stop with your false offense. You are not offering real solutions. You don't see these people in your neighborhood everyday. You don't talk to them everyday and realize there are major issues these people are going through.

No, all you do is turn your nose up at the word "jail". What is your solution? The status quo is failing these people big time. My suggestion gets everyone access to shelter, food, water, healthcare and other services.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:45 PM
 
10,736 posts, read 7,619,040 times
Reputation: 3331
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
I spent 100 nights living out of a Nissan Sentra in 2015. I seriously doubt you know what it’s like to live with so little.
Oh, you had a car? Must have been nice. I still don't have a car.

Kidding, sounds like you have had plenty of challenges that surpass mine and I am thankful for how good of a life I have had. But I hope we all can still find a better solutions for those out there facing greater difficulties than both of us ever have.
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