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Old 08-13-2012, 11:25 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Yes there is evidence they were in Egypt. It is found in the historical account of Genesis and Exodus and other books in the history of Israel.
Don't forget the stele found in Egypt written in Hieroglyphs the account of the Exodus nearly verbatim...
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Don't forget the stele found in Egypt written in Hieroglyphs the account of the Exodus nearly verbatim...
Thanks Richard. Interesting!
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
 
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Archeological Evidence for Israel's Red Sea crossing

Archeological evidence for Israel's Red Sea crossing - YouTube
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Don't forget the stele found in Egypt written in Hieroglyphs the account of the Exodus nearly verbatim...
RESPONSE:

Hardly. From the Wikipedia:

"At the time of first translating the stela, it was thought that the story of a seven-year-famine was connected to the biblical story in Genesis 41, where also a famine of seven years occurs. But more recent investigations have showed that a seven-year famine was a myth common to nearly all cultures of the Near East. A Mesopotamian legend also speaks of a seven-year-famine and in the well known Gilgamesh-Epos the god Anu gives a prophecy about a famine for seven years. A further Egyptian tale beside the Famine Stela about a long-lasting drought appears in the so-called “Book of the Temple”, translated by GermanDemotistJoachim Friedrich Quack."

"The Famine Stela is an inscription written in hieroglyphs located on Sehel Island in the Nile near Aswan in Egypt, which speaks of a seven-year period of drought and famine during the reign of the 3rd dynastykingDjoser. It is thought that the stela was inscribed during the Ptolemaic dynasty, which ruled 332 – 31 B.C.."

Kind on missed the Mosaic period by about 1000 years, didn't it?
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Archeological Evidence for Israel's Red Sea crossing

Archeological evidence for Israel's Red Sea crossing - YouTube
RESPONSE:

Ah yes. The "chariot wheel" that just had to come froma chariot which was pursuing Moses and the Hebrews. And it's preserved to boot! Glory be! Another miracle!

But there are two problem heres. First of all, how is it determined that this is a chariot wheel and not from some wagon and even if it is a chariot wheel, not just a random discard.

And the other problem is that the "Red Sea" yarn is a mistranslation. It was the Reed Sea, not the Red sea.

Even from the Wikipedia:

The Hebrew term for the place of the crossing is "Yam Suph". Although this has traditionally been thought to refer to the salt water inlet located between Africa and the Arabian peninsula, known in English as the Red Sea, this is a mistranslation from the Greek Septuagint, and Hebrew suph never means "red" but rather "reeds.

Eusebious seems never to have researched the facts, or if he knows them, thinks he is writing for a very gullible audience.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:19 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Ah yes. The "chariot wheel" that just had to come froma chariot which was pursuing Moses and the Hebrews. And it's preserved to boot! Glory be! Another miracle!

But there are two problem heres. First of all, how is it determined that this is a chariot wheel and not from some wagon and even if it is a chariot wheel, not just a random discard.

And the other problem is that the "Red Sea" yarn is a mistranslation. It was the Reed Sea, not the Red sea.

Even from the Wikipedia:

The Hebrew term for the place of the crossing is "Yam Suph". Although this has traditionally been thought to refer to the salt water inlet located between Africa and the Arabian peninsula, known in English as the Red Sea, this is a mistranslation from the Greek Septuagint, and Hebrew suph never means "red" but rather "reeds.

Eusebious seems never to have researched the facts, or if he knows them, thinks he is writing for a very gullible audience.
It wasn't just one wheel.

It was here they crossed:
Exo 14:2 "Speak to the sons of Israel that they may return and encamp before Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, before Baal-zephon. Over against it you shall encamp by the sea."

Then, from this point Moses parted the Red Sea.

The sea had to be a minimum of 6 feet deep so it would drown the horses and chariot riders.

The Israelites complained to Moses while on the Egyptian side of the Red Sea that he brought them out to die in the wilderness.

Leneord Moller is a scientist with the Karolinska institute in Stockholm, Sweden. This institute awards the Nobel Prize for science. At that crossing Mr. Moller, who has studied choral all over the world, said here it looks like a junk yard. It is Pharaoh's army.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It wasn't just one wheel.

It was here they crossed:
Exo 14:2 "Speak to the sons of Israel that they may return and encamp before Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, before Baal-zephon. Over against it you shall encamp by the sea."

Then, from this point Moses parted the Red Sea.

The sea had to be a minimum of 6 feet deep so it would drown the horses and chariot riders.

The Israelites complained to Moses while on the Egyptian side of the Red Sea that he brought them out to die in the wilderness.

Leneord Moller is a scientist with the Karolinska institute in Stockholm, Sweden. This institute awards the Nobel Prize for science. At that crossing Mr. Moller, who has studied choral all over the world, said here it looks like a junk yard. It is Pharaoh's army.
RESPONSE:

Sorry. The Hebrew Old Testment says the Sea of Reeds, not the Red Sea. It was the later mistranslation of the Hebrew into Greek that contained the term Red Sea.

And as has as has been demonstrated, there is no archeological evidence or Egyptian writings despite their extensive record keeping, that evidences that 2,000,000 Hebrews were ever in Egypt especially for 400 years or spent 40 years in any desert but didn't leave any archeological footprint.

Exodus is a popular Jewish folklore, not history.

If you have valid documentation to the contrary, please present it.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:05 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Sorry. The Hebrew Old Testment says the Sea of Reeds, not the Red Sea. It was the later mistranslation of the Hebrew into Greek that contained the term Red Sea.

And as has as has been demonstrated, there is no archeological evidence or Egyptian writings despite their extensive record keeping, that evidences that 2,000,000 Hebrews were ever in Egypt especially for 400 years or spent 40 years in any desert but didn't leave any archeological footprint.

Exodus is a popular Jewish folklore, not history.

If you have valid documentation to the contrary, please present it.
Why would the Egyptians have writings that there were 2,000,000 Hebrews in their land when there weren't 2,000,000 Hebrews in their land?

Whether it was the sea of reeds or Red Sea is a moot point. All the Egyptians drowned. So it had to be deep enough for them to drown.

This scientist from Karolinska institute said they were wagon wheels from Pharoah's army and an Egyptologist said the wheel was from the right dynasty.

Exodus is history. Get over it.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:34 AM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Sorry. The Hebrew Old Testment says the Sea of Reeds, not the Red Sea. It was the later mistranslation of the Hebrew into Greek that contained the term Red Sea.

And as has as has been demonstrated, there is no archeological evidence or Egyptian writings despite their extensive record keeping, that evidences that 2,000,000 Hebrews were ever in Egypt especially for 400 years or spent 40 years in any desert but didn't leave any archeological footprint.

Exodus is a popular Jewish folklore, not history.

If you have valid documentation to the contrary, please present it.

Egyptian

The Hyksos Expulsion, contemporaneous Egyptian records of the driving out of the mysterious Hyksos people. Jacobovici suggests that the Hyksos and the Hebrews were one and the same, a thesis he supports with Egyptian-style signet rings uncovered in the Hyksos capital of Avaris (30°47'14.71"N, 31°49'16.92"E) that read "Yakov/Yakub" (from Yaqub-her), similar to the Hebrew name of the Biblical patriarch Jacob (Ya'aqov).
The Ahmose stele, also called the Tempest Stele pieces of this stone tablet were unearthed in Karnak by Henri Chevalier in 1947.[5] In it an unknown god incurs one of the same plagues described in the Biblical account (darkness, also described as "a great storm"). The Exodus Decoded official website quotes the stele, "How much greater is this the impressive manifestation of the great God, than the plans of the gods!" An alternative reading is "Then His Majesty said 'How these (events) surpass the power of the great god and the wills of the divinities!'".[5]
Ahmose I. Jacobovici suggests that the name of the Pharaoh at the time of the Exodus may have been a pun (paronomasia). Jacobovici states that in Hebrew, the Egyptian name Ahmose would mean "Brother of Moses." Yet in Egyptian, "Mose," "Moses," "Mes," etc. means "son of."[6] and "Ah" is a common part of Egyptian royal names referring to the moon god Iah.[7] The documentary also examines the mummy of Ahmose's son, [Ahmose Sapair], who appears to have died at the age of 12. In the Bible, the pharaoh loses a son to the Plague of the Firstborn.
Serabit el-Khadim turquoise mine, a labour camp in the Sinai with a Semitic alphabetic inscription that reads "O El, save me from these mines." He argues that the use of "El" suggests that it was written before the alleged revelation at Sinai, supporting the thesis that Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt, although this inscription was undated.

Mycenaean

Gravestones. Jacobovici suggests that three of the stones marking the wealthy tombs of Grave Circle A in Mycenae depict the parting of the Sea of Reeds. The stones, Jacobovici claims, show a man on a chariot in pursuit of a man on foot carrying a long, straight object. Jacobovici proposes that the man on the chariot is Ahmose I, the man on foot is Moses, and the long, straight object is the staff of Aaron. Above and below the scene are rows of swirls which, in Jacobovici's interpretation, represent the parting waters. He admits, however, that archaeologists have typically interpreted the scene as a chariot race, with the long, straight object being a spear or sword.
A Gold ornament excavated from one of the tombs in the Grave Circle is believed by Jacobovici to show the Ark of the Covenant against a background of the tabernacle altar. However, when you compare the photo of the gold ornament to the Biblical story of God telling Moses how to build the Ark, the descriptions differ in several ways. Jacobovici suggests that members of the Tribe of Dan may have emigrated to Mycenae after the Exodus. This, the documentary suggests, is why Homer refers to the buried at Mycenae as "Danaoi." The Greek myth states, however, that the Danaoi were descended from the Argosites under the matriarch Danaë.


Theology

The documentary claims that most historians consider the Exodus a "fairy tale," and it also claims that others reject scientific explanations that are not explicitly miraculous. Jacobovici reminds viewers that God, according to the Judeo-Christian description, manipulates nature, having an intimate understanding of it. His miracles may therefore be an efficient and timely exploitation of natural cycles and logic.
The documentary ends by posing the question of whether the Exodus was just a natural event or "the Hand of God," implying that it is for the viewer to decide - The Exodus Decoded - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Egyptian

The Hyksos Expulsion, contemporaneous Egyptian records of the driving out of the mysterious Hyksos people. Jacobovici suggests that the Hyksos and the Hebrews were one and the same, a thesis he supports with Egyptian-style signet rings uncovered in the Hyksos capital of Avaris (30°47'14.71"N, 31°49'16.92"E) that read "Yakov/Yakub" (from Yaqub-her), similar to the Hebrew name of the Biblical patriarch Jacob (Ya'aqov).
The Ahmose stele, also called the Tempest Stele pieces of this stone tablet were unearthed in Karnak by Henri Chevalier in 1947.[5] In it an unknown god incurs one of the same plagues described in the Biblical account (darkness, also described as "a great storm"). The Exodus Decoded official website quotes the stele, "How much greater is this the impressive manifestation of the great God, than the plans of the gods!" An alternative reading is "Then His Majesty said 'How these (events) surpass the power of the great god and the wills of the divinities!'".[5]
Ahmose I. Jacobovici suggests that the name of the Pharaoh at the time of the Exodus may have been a pun (paronomasia). Jacobovici states that in Hebrew, the Egyptian name Ahmose would mean "Brother of Moses." Yet in Egyptian, "Mose," "Moses," "Mes," etc. means "son of."[6] and "Ah" is a common part of Egyptian royal names referring to the moon god Iah.[7] The documentary also examines the mummy of Ahmose's son, [Ahmose Sapair], who appears to have died at the age of 12. In the Bible, the pharaoh loses a son to the Plague of the Firstborn.
Serabit el-Khadim turquoise mine, a labour camp in the Sinai with a Semitic alphabetic inscription that reads "O El, save me from these mines." He argues that the use of "El" suggests that it was written before the alleged revelation at Sinai, supporting the thesis that Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt, although this inscription was undated.

Mycenaean

Gravestones. Jacobovici suggests that three of the stones marking the wealthy tombs of Grave Circle A in Mycenae depict the parting of the Sea of Reeds. The stones, Jacobovici claims, show a man on a chariot in pursuit of a man on foot carrying a long, straight object. Jacobovici proposes that the man on the chariot is Ahmose I, the man on foot is Moses, and the long, straight object is the staff of Aaron. Above and below the scene are rows of swirls which, in Jacobovici's interpretation, represent the parting waters. He admits, however, that archaeologists have typically interpreted the scene as a chariot race, with the long, straight object being a spear or sword.
A Gold ornament excavated from one of the tombs in the Grave Circle is believed by Jacobovici to show the Ark of the Covenant against a background of the tabernacle altar. However, when you compare the photo of the gold ornament to the Biblical story of God telling Moses how to build the Ark, the descriptions differ in several ways. Jacobovici suggests that members of the Tribe of Dan may have emigrated to Mycenae after the Exodus. This, the documentary suggests, is why Homer refers to the buried at Mycenae as "Danaoi." The Greek myth states, however, that the Danaoi were descended from the Argosites under the matriarch Danaë.


Theology

The documentary claims that most historians consider the Exodus a "fairy tale," and it also claims that others reject scientific explanations that are not explicitly miraculous. Jacobovici reminds viewers that God, according to the Judeo-Christian description, manipulates nature, having an intimate understanding of it. His miracles may therefore be an efficient and timely exploitation of natural cycles and logic.
The documentary ends by posing the question of whether the Exodus was just a natural event or "the Hand of God," implying that it is for the viewer to decide - The Exodus Decoded - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
QUESTION:

You don't mention which reference you are using. Is it The Exodus Decoded which appeared on the History Channel?

Wouldn't you prefer to use The Bible Unearthed, by Silberman and Finkelstein as your source?


From Wikipedia:

"The Exodus Decoded is a documentary film that aired on April 16, 2006, on The History Channel. The program was created by Israeli-Canadian filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici and the producer/director James Cameron. The documentary explores evidence for the Biblical account of the Exodus. Its claims and methods were widely criticized both by Biblical scholars and by mainstream scientists"

However:

"Jacobovici's assertions have been extensively criticized both by archaeologists and religious scholars. The criticism addresses each of Jacobovici's claims, as well as his methods in general." (See the many listed in the Wikipedia article which you cited).

Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-14-2012 at 09:16 AM.. Reason: addition
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