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Actually, what I said still stands and can't be shaken, torn down or successfully argued away. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality. There can be no mistake in translating or interpreting those verses when so much context is given. Anyone arguing, or splitting hairs over semantics, is doing so to justify how they want it to be instead of accepting what God so clearly says in His Word. And I say the same thing to those who are cruel and hateful towards homosexuals. That's not biblical either. To those who are cruel, they need to be aware that they will be judged by God for their sins with the same fervency that they judge others for theirs. That includes how they treat homosexuals. It's possible to love people while NOT condoning their sin.
The disagreements aren't with me. They're with God.
I disagree. It's not 'semantics'. You are ignoring the contexts.
That's not true. I know Hebrew and Greek scholars who will disagree, too. This is merely a straw man argument in the attempt to justify homosexuality as normal and God-ordained. They're not.
The original scriptures were written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. Those languages are not dead and the scriptures in those languages are still commonly around. Homosexuality is indeed part of those languages in the scripture.
But, people who are desperate to justify homosexuality have no problem grabbing hold of falsehoods if it agrees with what they want to believe and accept. The Bible calls that tickling ears.
Once again, you are incorrect. Paul wrote his letters in Koine Greek. There were Koine Greek words Paul could have used if he just meant 'homosexuals'. He didn't use them. The words he did use, have never meant 'homosexuals' in any secular texts.
As for ancient Hebrew or Aramaic, there are no words that mean "homosexuals".
But people who are desperate to condemn homosexuality have no problem grabbing hold of falsehoods if it agrees with what they want to believe and accept. The Bible calls that tickling ears.
There are two (false) assumptions in your post; that people are innately homosexual (Romans 1:24-27) and that these "Christian Psychologists" are actually real Christians. If anyone preaches anything that's contrary to the scriptures, they are not of God. They're not true, biblical Christians. (Galatians 1:6-10)
Many people call themselves Christians but aren't. (Matthew 7:21-23) I can wear an orange robe, shave my head, chant, and call myself a Hare Krishna but, unless I'm LIVING OUT what they teach and believe, I would be a fake and damaging who the Hare Krishna's really are. In the same way, not everyone who claims to be a Christian actually is one. In fact, I will go as far as say that most of them are not. (Matthew 7:3-14)
Even if every single man, woman and child on the face of the earth agreed in harmony and unity that homosexuality should be accepted, embraced and considered sinless, it STILL wouldn't change the fact that God calls it sin and will judge it.
Still all of that aside. It doesn't matter what psychologists or anyone else says. Only what God has said in His word.
No false assumptions in my posts. They are backed up by research and facts. Your opinion of what you think god wants or what a 'real' Christian is, are your opinions.
This is not uncommon:
Brain scans show how people project their own views onto what they think are their "God's" views.
"Their opinions on God's attitudes on important social issues closely mirror their own beliefs. If their own attitudes change, so do their perceptions of what God thinks. They even use the same parts of their brain when considering God's will and their own opinions."
"The results suggest that similar parts of the brain are involved when we consider our own beliefs and those of God - Epley thinks this is why we end up inferring a deity's attitudes based on those we hold ourselves."
I don't know anything about Exodus International. I do, however, know of former homosexuals who have complete victory of that sin. I can only reiterate Point #6 in my original post: "6. Just as any sin can be forgiven, God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation. (1 Corinthians 6:11, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and Philippians 4:13.)"
Yes, I supposed they would feel pressured to lie. Is that from God? No. That pressure comes from themselves, their sin and other people. It doesn't come from God (who promises forgiveness and victory over sin) or the scriptures. It sounds like these people are looking to others for acceptance and assurance instead of looking to God and what His word says. That's where they're going wrong. People are fallible. God isn't.
I suggest that you 'know' gay people who have learnt to lie well about their sexual orientation.
I disagree. It's not 'semantics'. You are ignoring the contexts.
I can respect the fact that you disagree with me.
It is semantics. Semantics are the psychological study the meanings of words and the relationship between particular words and concepts. That's exactly what the overwhelming majority of this thread is doing -- arguing semantics. "What makes someone gay?" "When does a person become gay?" "Is being gay wrong?" "If it's not a choice how can it be wrong?"
Is it wrong to ask or ponder on these questions? Of course not. This is where I need to turn your own comment around on you. You, Jaymax, are the one ignoring the context. If this thread were in an "Alternative Lifestyles" or "Gay and Proud" thread, I wouldn't have participated. But, it's in the Christianity forum and it's about homosexuality in relation (in the context of) Christianity and God's views.
Every post I've made has been in that context. Everything I said has been regarding the biblical view of homosexuality. Not a single personal or emotional remark. But this thread is full of emotional and personal arguments -- the arguing of semantics and splitting hairs.
In the context of homosexuality and God's views on it, my first post in this thread is the full, complete and only answer. At the end of our lives on earth, as we face God's judgment on our lives, what more important context can their be that God's view? When, where, how, why, to what degree, how many, what if.... none of those will matter in the least. None of these will sway His response.
So, instead of arguing semantics and how many "psychologists" say this or that, why not go immediately to the most important context and final word on the matter and deal with it based on that alone? That's the context.
I suggest that you 'know' gay people who have learnt to lie well about their sexual orientation.
Can you back this up? Do you have proof or evidence? Do you know me or the people I know?
This is a childish attack response when you have nothing legitimate to respond with. The anti-God, anti-Bible and anti-Christian crowd use these types of statements all the time -- non-factual, non-provable opinion tossed in disguised as fact. It's the equivalent of picking up your bat and ball and going home because someone made you mad and you know you haven't any legitimate responses left. It's a last-ditch effort to save face.
Why is it that people can believe that God can forgive sins, create life, raise the dead, perform miracles and change lives but that restoring someone from homosexuality is the one impossible thing that even God can't do?
That is a lot of crap. One in ten are gay? Give me a break..to inflate the stats gives the people the impression of acceptability and normalization. It might be one out of every two hundred if that. Thinking something does not make things so...I could think that the long dead Marlin Monroe is going to crawl out of her casket and kiss me on the lips...I can think that but it ain't gonna happen...Or to have a murderous thought..and we have all had them does not make for a murderer.
One of my youngest son's friends once commented in jest that when he masturbates he thinks of his best friends...who are male...He is a young married guy and a bit of a loose eccentric..classically raised by a single liberal mother...He's not gay- he is just an anything goes jerk..The guy has no moral standards what so ever. He put on an event to raise money for Haitians in need...They raised the money- and kept it...some people were brought up not to understand or care if something is right or wrong...They have no concept of morality or honor- they don't know about it- they don't care about it...This is a new breed of jerk who would screw the tail pipe of a luxury car while sniffing dirty socks..
Do you really believe that? I'm blown away at the ignorance on this thread.
you should read this as it's filled with these things called "FACTS".
Being homosexual means that you are inclined to be attracted to the same sex. A homosexual act is just that, action or acting upon that desire. Some people engage in homosexual acts without being inclined, out of necessity or for power. Some people, such as myself, are formerly practicing homosexuals like Paul referred to at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
Due to my Bible beliefs I no longer engage in homosexual acts, but I'm still homosexual.
Are you aware that 1 Corinthians 6:9 has never in almost 2000 years referred to homosexuals/homosexuality? As a gay person, I would think you'd be more inclined to actually research whether your beliefs are accurate. Homosexual was not added to that verse until around 1950 A.D., and it's a proven inaccurate translation. Philo, a Jewish legal expert and contemporary of Paul said in 30 A.D. that the word in question referred to shrine prostitutes. Through the Protestant Reformation, it was universally translated as masturbators. And in every other use in Classical literature of the word that Paul invented, it never referred to sexual sins, much less homosexuality. In fact, some of its uses would make no sense if it referred to homosexuality because it's been applied to male/female relationships before.
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