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I hope you're preaching this to the heterosexual population. The majority of which has divorced and remarried. Each day that they remain in their second marriage they are in a constant state of sin (adultery). Why all the fuss over homosexuals when it is the heterosexuals who need to be made aware of their own sin.
Hence the part of my post that you highlighted in red. "This is true for ANY person living in ANY sin." We all need to measure our lives against God's Word daily. This thread is about homosexuality so I applied it to homosexuality. Straight, gay, bi, liar, thief, lazy bones, over-eater, shop-a-holic, alcoholic, drug addict, sports enthusiast, swear word user, etc., Sin is sin and hinders our relationship with God and puts the sinner's eternity at risk.
Like the OP said, if a person is questioning or wondering if they are gay, they need to be made aware of what God says about it and they need to seek God for themselves. God will hear and answer the earnest, honest seeker. However, if they don't seek God and they argue the semantics about what makes someone gay (actions, thoughts, feelings, etc.,) they aren't dealing with the most important issue and are risking their eternity.
The most important decision ANY person will EVER make in this lifetime is what they decide to do with Jesus - accept or reject Him. If they reject Him, they've made their choice and are responsible with the consequences of that choice. If they accept Him, then they need to accept exactly what the Bible says about Him and not pick and choose what they like and don't like. That's not Christianity. That's creating your own religion, putting yourself in the place of God and lowering Him to your creation. i.e., idolatry.
People can split hairs and argue semantics, science, nature vs nurture, psychology, etc., all day long.
Yeah except that the people here arguing against you and the rest of fundamentalist Christianity are also arguing against the meaning and translation of many of the very bible verses you post as well, and given the cultural context and the various differing translations of many of these verses over time, they may have a very good reason for doing so. Also, given that the nature/psychology side of this argument also appears to conflict with fundamentalist understandings, they might have even more reason.
The nature side of this should also not be under represented biblically considering Homosexuality has been virtually proven in many cases to have started in the womb (the brain similarities shown in post #3 would have had to develop in the womb at least if not genetically) and in Psalm 139:13, David says God knit him (which likely means us too) together in the womb...hmm, it just occurred to me that this makes it a little bit harder to blame Homosexuality on the Fall of Man doesn't it? Interesting
Or is it the action itself(having sex with a member of the same sex as yourself) that makes you gay?
I'm trying to find out from a Christian point of view. I treid to post on the Relationship forum but I didn't understand.
I remember reading on a Christian website that its the sex act itself that makes you a homosexual.
I'm confused.
Does that mean virgins can't be gay because they have not had any sex?
I see all these teens who say they are gay but they are virgins.
Not all our thoughts come from within but are planted by an enemy that seeks to humiliate and destroy mens lives.
1COR 10:13 "There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it." The way of escape is to call upon the Lord. Even to wisper the name of Jesus in faith will bring relief and change and if in wrong circumstances, one should walk away. Be transformed by the renewal of the your spiritual nature by the Mind of Christ who being the Tree of Life is the Fruit of all that is good and He leads to Living Waters.
JAS 1:13-16 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust/desires [to live without God], and enticed. Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
Desire/lust will change when we pray to have our focus on Gods good will for our lives! His good will starts with believing in Jesus. His is the Power and Glory to save from sin, not we ourselves. All were born with a flesh nature and now we need His Glory to render the flesh dead to sin and alive unto the joy of the Lord. Repression/denial nor self effort to change will do the job but His Righteousness [Glory] can and will for those who seek Him with all the heart.
Not all our thoughts come from within but are planted by an enemy that seeks to humiliate and destroy mens lives.
1COR 10:13 "There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it." The way of escape is to call upon the Lord. Even to wisper the name of Jesus in faith will bring relief and change and if in wrong circumstances, one should walk away. Be transformed by the renewal of the your spiritual nature by the Mind of Christ who being the Tree of Life is the Fruit of all that is good and He leads to Living Waters.
Has anyone noticed the RED above?...How it is worded and what it is stating?...
People can split hairs and argue semantics, science, nature vs nurture, psychology, etc., all day long. None of it will ever change a thing, let alone the truth. The bottom line to the topic of homosexuality is this:
1. The scriptures, which are God-breathed, say that homosexuality is a sin. (Genesis 19:1-13, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9) It goes as far as saying in Leviticus that homosexual acts are an abomination.
2. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:19) (Homosexuality is one of MANY things listed here, but it's clearly included in those who will not inherit the kingdom of God.)
3. God does not create a person with homosexual desires. Romans 1:24-27 says that people become homosexuals because of sin and ultimately because of their own choice. Someone might be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just like some people are born with a tendency toward violence or other sins. That still doesn't excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If someone is born with a greater susceptibility to anger or alcoholism, does that make it right for him or her to give in to those desires? Of course not. The same is true with homosexuality.
4. All sin is offensive to God and nowhere in the scriptures does it say that homosexuality is a worse sin than any other.
5. God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, liar, etc. While any person draws breath, God's forgiveness extends to them.
6. Just as any sin can be forgiven, God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation. (1 Corinthians 6:11, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and Philippians 4:13.)
That's the scriptural truth and the only scriptural viewpoint regarding homosexuality. There are no exceptions or special addendums for specific situations or people in this sin.
So, what does a homosexual (or someone who wonders if they are a homosexual) do? Like I said, all the arguing and debating and splitting hairs isn't going to change the Truth. The entire world could embrace and love homosexuality as "normal" but that wouldn't change the fact that God calls it sin and unacceptable.
So, there are only two choices:
1. They can accept God's word as the truth, repent (turn away from) and seek after God with their whole heart for forgiveness and victory over sin...
or
2. They can willingly deny the truth, rebel against God, make up their own religion and claim it to be "Christianity", argue until their dying breath and continue living in their sin. But, the scriptures say that the wages of sin is death and that person will spend eternity in hell. This is true for ANY person living in ANY sin. Sin is rebellion against God.
Such a shame the texts weren't actually originally written in English... or the 20th century. The word 'homosexuals" was used (incorrectly) for the first time in an English translation in the late 1940's (1 Cor 1:6-9). The same verse was used for centuries to condemn masturbation.
Abusive or idolatrous same-gender sex acts are condemned. Homosexuality isn't even mentioned at all.
Hence the part of my post that you highlighted in red. "This is true for ANY person living in ANY sin." We all need to measure our lives against God's Word daily. This thread is about homosexuality so I applied it to homosexuality. Straight, gay, bi, liar, thief, lazy bones, over-eater, shop-a-holic, alcoholic, drug addict, sports enthusiast, swear word user, etc., Sin is sin and hinders our relationship with God and puts the sinner's eternity at risk.
Like the OP said, if a person is questioning or wondering if they are gay, they need to be made aware of what God says about it and they need to seek God for themselves. God will hear and answer the earnest, honest seeker. However, if they don't seek God and they argue the semantics about what makes someone gay (actions, thoughts, feelings, etc.,) they aren't dealing with the most important issue and are risking their eternity.
The most important decision ANY person will EVER make in this lifetime is what they decide to do with Jesus - accept or reject Him. If they reject Him, they've made their choice and are responsible with the consequences of that choice. If they accept Him, then they need to accept exactly what the Bible says about Him and not pick and choose what they like and don't like. That's not Christianity. That's creating your own religion, putting yourself in the place of God and lowering Him to your creation. i.e., idolatry.
People can't change their innate sexual orientation. Even Christian Evangelical researchers are finally realising this:
A new study by conservative Christian psychologists on people in mixed orientation marriages has found that while people can change their sexual behavior, sexual orientation does not change.
“Characteristics of Mixed Orientation Couples: An Empirical Study"
"While it was not a study of efforts to change, one could reasonably assume that if a group had participants who had shifted orientation very much, then this would be the group. However, that is not what they found"
Conservative Christian psychologist Dr Throckmorton says: "I think evangelicals need to face what evangelical academics are finding in research"
Hence the part of my post that you highlighted in red. "This is true for ANY person living in ANY sin." We all need to measure our lives against God's Word daily. This thread is about homosexuality so I applied it to homosexuality. Straight, gay, bi, liar, thief, lazy bones, over-eater, shop-a-holic, alcoholic, drug addict, sports enthusiast, swear word user, etc., Sin is sin and hinders our relationship with God and puts the sinner's eternity at risk.
Like the OP said, if a person is questioning or wondering if they are gay, they need to be made aware of what God says about it and they need to seek God for themselves. God will hear and answer the earnest, honest seeker. However, if they don't seek God and they argue the semantics about what makes someone gay (actions, thoughts, feelings, etc.,) they aren't dealing with the most important issue and are risking their eternity.
The most important decision ANY person will EVER make in this lifetime is what they decide to do with Jesus - accept or reject Him. If they reject Him, they've made their choice and are responsible with the consequences of that choice. If they accept Him, then they need to accept exactly what the Bible says about Him and not pick and choose what they like and don't like. That's not Christianity. That's creating your own religion, putting yourself in the place of God and lowering Him to your creation. i.e., idolatry.
Even Alan Chambers, the president of Exodus International, one of the largest 'pray-away-the-gay' groups, finally said earlier this year that 99.9% of their members have not changed their sexual orientation. (By saying 99.9% he means...none)
Many evangelical Christian gay and lesbian people feel pressured by their religious beliefs to lie about their sexual orientation and pretend to have 'changed'.
Is it better to live your whole life lying to yourself and others or to be in a loving commited same-gender relationship (Marriage now in 9 states in the US and soon to be more)?
Not all our thoughts come from within but are planted by an enemy that seeks to humiliate and destroy mens lives.
1COR 10:13 "There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it." The way of escape is to call upon the Lord. Even to wisper the name of Jesus in faith will bring relief and change and if in wrong circumstances, one should walk away. Be transformed by the renewal of the your spiritual nature by the Mind of Christ who being the Tree of Life is the Fruit of all that is good and He leads to Living Waters.
JAS 1:13-16 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust/desires [to live without God], and enticed. Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
Desire/lust will change when we pray to have our focus on Gods good will for our lives! His good will starts with believing in Jesus. His is the Power and Glory to save from sin, not we ourselves. All were born with a flesh nature and now we need His Glory to render the flesh dead to sin and alive unto the joy of the Lord. Repression/denial nor self effort to change will do the job but His Righteousness [Glory] can and will for those who seek Him with all the heart.
Sexual orientation is not just about 'desire/lust' or sexual behavior. It's about who you love and how you think. Gay and lesbian people are no different to straight people in that they love, dream, hope, pray, have aspirations, have careers, have families (many have children).
But all anti-gay conservatives seem to think about are sex acts. It's a way of dehumanizing gay and lesbian people to make it easier to condemn them. Do they think about only sex acts when they think of straight people? No.
Nothing wrong with being deeply in love with another human being. Nothing wrong with loving the opposite sex or the same sex. It is questionable that this so-called love manifests it self in some sort of sexual form. I could never understand how a homosexual who finds woman beautiful does not consider the female in a sexual way? Why they find having sex with a woman is repulsive but sodomizing or having oral sex with the same sex is not....It just strikes me as odd.
I wondered as a kid why homosexuality existed...and what it really was.. What was clear to me back then was the simple fact that some people are so deeply in love with themselves that they only way they can express that love FOR THEM SELVES is to have sex WITH THEM SELVES. So they opt for the same sex which is probably as close as you can get to fulfilling that supposed self love- I really don't believe there is any real love involved in the homosexual act...It is all about yourself and not another person.
Such a shame the texts weren't actually originally written in English... or the 20th century. The word 'homosexuals" was used (incorrectly) for the first time in an English translation in the late 1940's (1 Cor 1:6-9). The same verse was used for centuries to condemn masturbation.
Abusive or idolatrous same-gender sex acts are condemned. Homosexuality isn't even mentioned at all.
Amazing how little the most rabid "Christians" know about the Bible isn't it? He's quoting Leviticus to condemn gays, despite it being impossible to refer to gay people based on context, and the way Jewish law works. The preceding verses itself show it's about pagan worship.
And then of course, people like plain and simple ignore the fact that the very same books he's condemning gays with, tell us to execute anyone who works on Friday night or Saturday.
Why does he ignore those commands? The Bible says, "By the measure you judge others, so shall you be judged". Does Plain and Simple realize God is going to condemn him with the Torah law? Hope he follows all 613 of them.
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