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There are many ways to show the Patriarchs committing what we would call immoral sex, but David and Jonathon isn't an example of homosexuality, neither is John and Jesus an example of homosexuality. I have seen many people tease Christians about even Paul being a Homosexual, but those are all silly arguments that I just smile at....I can't take it in any other way other than just teasing Christians and it is funny, it's just a non issue, it didn't happen and anyone who is really serious about knowing Biblical people already know it's a non issue, a silly issue....
If I was the Type of Homosexual interested in pleading my cause, to plead THAT cause would only make me look desperate and silly, it would hurt my cause and the cause of any Christian Homosexual.
There are many ways to show the Patriarchs committing what we would call immoral sex, but David and Jonathon isn't an example of homosexuality, neither is John and Jesus an example of homosexuality. I have seen many people tease Christians about even Paul being a Homosexual, but those are all silly arguments that I just smile at....I can't take it in any other way other than just teasing Christians and it is funny, it's just a non issue, it didn't happen and anyone who is really serious about knowing Biblical people already know it's a non issue, a silly issue....
If I was the Type of Homosexual interested in pleading my cause, to plead THAT cause would only make me look desperate and silly, it would hurt my cause and the cause of any Christian Homosexual.
But you have to admit Hanni, the way it is worded it's pretty close. C'mon be honest.
But you have to admit Hanni, the way it is worded it's pretty close. C'mon be honest.
I can see how an outsider could misunderstand it, even with Christians who have only read the bible a couple times but have never put themselves in the feet in the shoes of those in Jerusalem living so long ago in Judaism and in the culture and heritage of those people. People committed to biblical studies would never even consider that David might be Homosexual with Jonathon....I also wonder if women can even understand the love and bond between two men, it is often much stronger than a bond between a man and a woman. What we saw in David and Jonathon was a spiritual loving relationship of one man completely in surrender to another man's spirit...The bond between Benjamin and Judah, the same bond we see in John and Jesus laying up on each other's chest....Benjamin IS the beloved of the Lord who rests in the bosom of his Lord. David wasn't just anyone, his sins were a directed at his people. When David committed adultery, his people paid the price, and we can actually know David in a personal way because there is so much written, had he gone out of bounds, we would have known it.
I can see how an outsider could misunderstand it, even with Christians who have only read the bible a couple times but have never put themselves in the feet in the shoes of those in Jerusalem living so long ago in Judaism and in the culture and heritage of those people. People committed to biblical studies would never even consider that David might be Homosexual with Jonathon....I also wonder if women can even understand the love and bond between two men, it is often much stronger than a bond between a man and a woman. What we saw in David and Jonathon was a spiritual loving relationship of one man completely in surrender to another man's spirit...The bond between Benjamin and Judah, the same bond we see in John and Jesus laying up on each other's chest....Benjamin IS the beloved of the Lord who rests in the bosom of his Lord. David wasn't just anyone, his sins were a directed at his people. When David committed adultery, his people paid the price, and we can actually know David in a personal way because there is so much written, had he gone out of bounds, we would have known it.
Let us suppose that it was showing David and Jonathon in a Homosexual relationship.
If the author purposely intended it to be taken as a homosexual relationship, the author would have also known that it would have to be dealt with, you can't make it rational in any sense. It might be something Christians may discuss, but I don't even know all the ways that this would be silly to anyone in Judaism, and not because most people in Judaism are Jews, it doesn't make logical sense from any direction of a people following a certain God in their own culture and heritage based upon their religion. It just sounds silly.
Outsiders, I mean people who do not love the commandments of God or study them, I mean people not in Judaism and people who don't love a religion can really know a religion unless they love it to gain ambition to study it all day...There is a whole lot of things that outsiders wouldn't understand about many laws and ways.....WE can read the laws of Slavery, but much is lost to the world when they don't know the practical applications of the law, for instance, we don't see what happens to a slave who refuses his freedom in the real world......What does the community do to a Hebrew slave who refuses his freedom? He is put in the stocks and humiliated for refusing his freedom.
When speaking on most subjects, I can't even know if I am completely right because of the fact that there is a mountain of information I have yet to go over, and I don't know this information because I lived 40 years as a Christian instead of being raised in Judaism to become a priest. I simply don't know the complete answer because I have not read the mountain of information coming from the culture, beliefs and mentality of a people I wasn't raised in.
I can see how an outsider could misunderstand it, even with Christians who have only read the bible a couple times but have never put themselves in the feet in the shoes of those in Jerusalem living so long ago in Judaism and in the culture and heritage of those people. People committed to biblical studies would never even consider that David might be Homosexual with Jonathon....I also wonder if women can even understand the love and bond between two men, it is often much stronger than a bond between a man and a woman. What we saw in David and Jonathon was a spiritual loving relationship of one man completely in surrender to another man's spirit...The bond between Benjamin and Judah, the same bond we see in John and Jesus laying up on each other's chest....Benjamin IS the beloved of the Lord who rests in the bosom of his Lord. David wasn't just anyone, his sins were a directed at his people. When David committed adultery, his people paid the price, and we can actually know David in a personal way because there is so much written, had he gone out of bounds, we would have known it.
You’re saying homosexual relationships were frowned on in that time and culture do David couldn’t have had such a relationship?
You’re saying homosexual relationships were frowned on in that time and culture do David couldn’t have had such a relationship?
I am saying it sounds silly to insinuate that the scripture at hand is purposely to show David and Jonathon in a Homosexual relation.
Had the author purposely written this to show a Homosexual relationship, not only would the New Testament deal with it, the prophets would have had to deal with it, or it would have simply been omitted, it doesn't make any logical sense that it was made to show any kind of sex, and had there been just a sliver of doubt, it would have had to been dealt with, especially in the New Testament, and especially by the prophets of David, and it would have been rationalized in the Psalms. Understand what the repercussions would be had the author intended anyone to take this as Homosexuality. Let us also not forget that everything is written of David, the whole of the book is of him.
You should invite some "fundies" to your house and share a meal so you can pretend to be nice
I go to a weekly Bible study. There are about eighteen members—-I am the only one who is NOT a fundie. The reference in their study book claims they believe the Bible (in its non-existent originals) is inerrant. In three weeks they already are looking askance at some of my points about the letter to Romans. But I have no problem voluntarily walking into the lion’s den because I know God is with me.
Look up Community Bible Studies—-they are a fundie group with meetings all over the country.
I can’t see you hosting gays for a bible study at your church. I doubt you even have fortitude to recommend your church do so.
I can see how an outsider could misunderstand it, even with Christians who have only read the bible a couple times but have never put themselves in the feet in the shoes of those in Jerusalem living so long ago in Judaism and in the culture and heritage of those people. People committed to biblical studies would never even consider that David might be Homosexual with Jonathon....I also wonder if women can even understand the love and bond between two men, it is often much stronger than a bond between a man and a woman. What we saw in David and Jonathon was a spiritual loving relationship of one man completely in surrender to another man's spirit...The bond between Benjamin and Judah, the same bond we see in John and Jesus laying up on each other's chest....Benjamin IS the beloved of the Lord who rests in the bosom of his Lord. David wasn't just anyone, his sins were a directed at his people. When David committed adultery, his people paid the price, and we can actually know David in a personal way because there is so much written, had he gone out of bounds, we would have known it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
You’re saying homosexual relationships were frowned on in that time and culture do David couldn’t have had such a relationship?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
I am saying it sounds silly to insinuate that the scripture at hand is purposely to show David and Jonathon in a Homosexual relation.
Had the author purposely written this to show a Homosexual relationship, not only would the New Testament deal with it, the prophets would have had to deal with it, or it would have simply been omitted, it doesn't make any logical sense that it was made to show any kind of sex, and had there been just a sliver of doubt, it would have had to been dealt with, especially in the New Testament, and especially by the prophets of David, and it would have been rationalized in the Psalms. Understand what the repercussions would be had the author intended anyone to take this as Homosexuality. Let us also not forget that everything is written of David, the whole of the book is of him.
Male dominance is one of the earliest known and most widespread forms of inequality in human history, even when it comes to men dominating other men, not just women.
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