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Whoa... whoa.... did not say anything about 50/50. I believe 100% what is said about the final judgments and the lake of fire and who will be there. I do not believe all will be saved.
But the Bible doesn't ever say the judgments are the final lot of mankind not does the Bible say the lake of fire which is death, is eternal.
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You need to pay close attention here
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, because this is where you have a huge problem IMO.
For me - while I believe what I believe what God stated in the Bible, at the end of the day, I recognize that it is taken by faith, and I understand that I could be wrong. Whatever the case may be, I am wherever God is on the issue and I will be with Him whether I am right or wrong. So if God chooses to save everybody - great - and I have no problem being in error. If chooses to send some to the lake of fire - great - because I will be with Him, and I trust Him enough to handle things as He sees fit.
That is a good thing to trust Him no matter what. The problem though is if people are in error concerning God's ultimate for humanity and they teach others their error and thus malign God.
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For you
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- according to that second paragraph - you put your own personal beliefs as a higher priority than your relationship with God. In other words, if God doesn't perform as YOU want, then you won't serve Him. You talk a good game about God most of the time, but all of a sudden He turns into a monster because He does not line up with what you want. I think that says more about you than God. So who is really #1 in your life, you or God? Do you surrender all - including your belief system?
Of course God is #1 in my life. But I was having a really difficult time in my early years of Christianity believing God would eternally torture people in fire for such a short life on earth. In that paradigm, people don't get a just verdict. That would be like sending a 4 year old to life in prison without the possibility of parole for stealing a 1 cent piece of candy. If the judge was your best friend, you might be okay with that.
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God is not subject to your belief system, or my belief system. He is going to do what He is going to do regardless of what we think. So be ready for Him to do things that you may not agree with.
God is subject to what He has informed us in the Scriptures as to what He will do with all mankind:
"God will have all mankind to be saved" (1 Timothy 2:4) because Christ ransomed all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6) and God IS the Saviour of all mankind (1 Tim.4:10) "these things charge and teach" (1 Timothy 4:11). So let's get out there and teach God will save all and is all mankind's Saviour, okay?
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One more thing - don't be confused with thinking I want you to agree with me. You do not have to agree with me. What I am suggesting is that you give room for God to be God, and trust Him enough to do wants He wants with HIS creation.
Proverbs 3:5 - "do not lean on your own understanding"
Romans 3:4 - "let God be true, and every man found a liar"
I agree. That is why I lean on God's understanding concerning Him saving all.
It's what he said. I don't care what you think 'eonian' means, a second, a minute, day, etc. It means eternal. It has been explained to you enough times, so I won't go there.
Dear Finn, it is impossible for eonian to mean "eternal." The eons end. That which is eonian pertains to the eons.
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So, where did you get the "you must set foot in church" translation? Or are you saying it was your own invention?
I never said someone must set foot in church.
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No, I would not be upset. Why would I? I would ask Jesus to explain the discrepancy between what He taught and what actually happened.
Jesus would tell you "Go to Eusebius. He knows what he is talking about."
In a properly translated Bible, Jesus never contradicted what He taught the Jews and what He taught Paul to teach the nations.
I am just kind of curious if you would be upset if God really did save all mankind because Christ ransomed all per 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
Would that sadden you to see your loved ones saved even if they never set foot in church?
Everyone will be happen to know everyone else is saved. However, where does your conscience go if in case the Bible tells the opposite while your preaching of UR may lead to the very death of other human souls? Will you be happen to be a soul murderer?
If the Bible actually says that by the Covenant granted, a human needs to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. While you preach openly that everyone will be saved disregarding to whether he chooses to believe in Jesus or not. So some humans choose to believe in you by giving up believing Jesus/Christianity. It however turns out that they believe the wrong message which directly causing their souls being condemned eternally. Will you be happen under the circumstance by watching people going in an eternal hell as a direct result of your influcence?
Dear Finn, it is impossible for eonian to mean "eternal." The eons end. That which is eonian pertains to the eons.
You are welcome to your personal views. I do not wish to discuss something which has been explained to you so many times. People waste their time explaining things to you, when you always come back as if nothing had been said.
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I never said someone must set foot in church.
Yes, you said it in the OP, as if that was a belief held by others. Not very honest.
That is a good thing to trust Him no matter what. The problem though is if people are in error concerning God's ultimate for humanity and they teach others their error and thus malign God.
The message we are supposed to preach does not involve the lake of fire or the salvation of all.
Stick to the message and let God handle the rest.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
[/b]Of course God is #1 in my life. But I was having a really difficult time in my early years of Christianity believing God would eternally torture people in fire for such a short life on earth. In that paradigm, people don't get a just verdict. That would be like sending a 4 year old to life in prison without the possibility of parole for stealing a 1 cent piece of candy. If the judge was your best friend, you might be okay with that.
You just called God a monster and worse than the heathen if He does not do as you want/believe. Doesn't sound like a #1 endorsement.
Go back to you question in the OP, which I answered. I am OK either way because God is at the center.
You are not OK either way, because you are at the center. That's a problem.
The message we are supposed to preach does not involve the lake of fire or the salvation of all.
Stick to the message and let God handle the rest.
But Drob, God does tell us to charge and teach He will save all mankind and is all mankind's Saviour. We are not to teach He is not all mankind's Saviour or teach He will not save all. (see 1Timothy 2:4-6; 4:10,11 again).
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You just called God a monster and worse than the heathen if He does not do as you want/believe. Doesn't sound like a #1 endorsement.
So if you have a daughter and God did not give her faith to be believing, and God eternally tortured her in fire and kept her alive for all eternity, you'd be okay with that? Maybe that is why so many followed Hitler in spite of him burning people to death. They thought he could do no wrong. At least Hitler couldn't keep them alive for days, weeks, months or years in the fire chambers.
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Go back to you question in the OP, which I answered. I am OK either way because God is at the center.
You are not OK either way, because you are at the center. That's a problem.
No, the center is what God has declared He will do with all mankind due to Christ ransoming all.
You are welcome to your personal views. I do not wish to discuss something which has been explained to you so many times. People waste their time explaining things to you, when you always come back as if nothing had been said.
It's how grammar works, except for you.
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I never said someone must set foot in church.
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Yes, you said it in the OP, as if that was a belief held by others. Not very honest.
I never said someone must set foot in church. It is not very honest for you to say I did.
Here is my actual beginning argument opening up this thread:
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I am just kind of curious if you would be upset if God really did save all mankind because Christ ransomed all per 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
Would that sadden you to see your loved ones saved even if they never set foot in church?
Everyone will be happen to know everyone else is saved. However, where does your conscience go if in case the Bible tells the opposite while your preaching of UR may lead to the very death of other human souls? Will you be happen to be a soul murderer?
If the Bible actually says that by the Covenant granted, a human needs to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. While you preach openly that everyone will be saved disregarding to whether he chooses to believe in Jesus or not. So some humans choose to believe in you by giving up believing Jesus/Christianity. It however turns out that they believe the wrong message which directly causing their souls being condemned eternally. Will you be happen under the circumstance by watching people going in an eternal hell as a direct result of your influcence?
Hi Hawkins,
I believe that for the next two eons (millennial reign of Christ and new earth), not all mankind will be saved. There is plenty of support in the Bible for that.
Yet the Bible does say God will save all mankind and is all mankind's Saviour, especially them that believe (see 1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10). Believers get a special salvation to live through the next two eons.
There is no such thing as "an eternal hell."
And which "Hell" are you talking about? Are you talking about Sheol or Hades, or Gehenna all of which are sometimes improperly translated "Hell" in some Bibles?
So you are taking a **supposedly safe approach** that just in case eternal torture is correct, you are going to tell people they are goind to such a place if they don't believe just to be on the safe side? How does that work? You think you can be safe by being disobedient to God when He tells you to teach He is all mankind's Saviour?
I am just kind of curious if you would be upset if God really did save all mankind because Christ ransomed all per 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
Would that sadden you to see your loved ones saved even if they never set foot in church?
Even though your use of 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is misused out of context by using eisegesis in your interpretation. To answer the question...
If the belief of salvation for all were true no one would be upset with God because we'd all be lobotomized to feel whatever God tells us to feel. So no, I wouldn't be upset because I'd be a slave to instinct. Just as a dog doesn't have any ability to upset with the president of the United States over politics so it would be with those that live in a 'all saved' world. We'd just be God's pets. Alive but unable to understand the term 'alive'.
Even though your use of 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is misused out of context by using eisegesis in your interpretation. To answer the question...
If the belief of salvation for all were true no one would be upset with God because we'd all be lobotomized to feel whatever God tells us to feel. So no, I wouldn't be upset because I'd be a slave to instinct. Just as a dog doesn't have any ability to upset with the president of the United States over politics so it would be with those that live in a 'all saved' world. We'd just be God's pets. Alive but unable to understand the term 'alive'.
What, exactly, do you think "salvation" is, if you think people would need to be lobotomized to experience it?
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