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The same prophetic teaching Jesus was rejected for not fulfilling and Paul persecuted for not preaching is still being promulgated by racial dispensationalism: that when Messiah comes (again) it will be in wrath against those wicked people who hate Him and us. His mighty sword will be dripping with the blood of His enemies who He will remove with no more time for mercy. It will be too late! And He will lift us, His people, up to inherit the whole earth, seating us on thrones to rule over everybody else. Then, as the Lord, He will rule from His throne in Jerusalem. (Huey!)
Also now, as then, they do not expect Him to appear in love, preforming miracles of mercy: healing, liberating, enlightening, enriching even His enemies; only now, it will be through His many membered body, "the bride, the lamb's wife...that great city, the holy Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God." (Rev 21:9-11) The Kingdom is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost." Through His Overcomers He will stun the whole world with His love!
Last edited by JamesMRohde; 10-24-2009 at 04:20 PM..
The same prophetic teaching Jesus was rejected for not fulfilling and Paul persecuted for not preaching is still being promulgated by racial dispensationalism: that when Messiah comes (again) it will be in wrath against those wicked people who hate Him and us. His mighty sword will be dripping with the blood of His enemies who He will remove with no more time for mercy. It will be too late! And He will lift us, His people, up to inherit the whole earth, seating us on thrones to rule over everybody else. Then, as the Lord, He will rule from His throne in Jerusalem. (Huey!)
Also now, as then, they do not expect Him to appear in love, preforming miracles of mercy: healing, liberating, enlightening, enriching even His enemies; only now, it will be through His many membered body, "the bride, the lamb's wife...that great city, the holy Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God." (Rev 21:9-11) The Kingdom is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost." Through His Overcomers He will stun the whole world with His love!
Well...what more can one expect from...Dispensensationalism...LOL
I cannot believe I'm hearing this---and from a 59 YO to boot! I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 16 YO who'd just come out of a Hal Lindsey rally; I bought into all this when I was that age and older, but the blinders fell off my eyes eventually and at the age of 58 too, so I shouldn't be so harsh.
Let me just try to appeal to your rational side one more time and then I'll let it go: try to comprehend the sheer logistics of trying to field a 200 million-man army---having to feed them, supply them, dispose of their waste product. It took the USA 6 months just to get 500,000 men into Iraq and they were flown in! Imagine 200 million soldiers on foot doing a 6000-mile trek (more than twice the distance of the USA from coast to coast) over wild, inhospitable, unforgiving terrain, having to drag along enough supplies to support them and the incredible amount of bodily waste product they'd be leaving behind. Does this sound rational? If it does, then I leave you to your "vision", my friend. Nothing more can be said to help you. You might come to your senses as I did. I hope and pray so.
Logistics? God has a way of dismissing logistics. When Israel was a wasteland for almost 2,000 years, God told us that in the latter days He would allow the Jewish people to return and rebuild their cities. Even many in the church nolonger believed that prophecy would be fulfilled. Yet, many who put their trust in God's Word saw the prophecy fulfilled. The prophecy of the Bible said the time would come when Jerusalems East Gate would have a Porch Gate added to it, and to make the prophecy all the more powerful, God allowed it to be fulfilled over a 1,000 years later. And God even had non believers fulfill the prophecy. And then God said the Gate would be sealed up, and only when the Prince to come arrives would the Gate be opened. Today, Jerusalems East Porch Gate remains closed just as the Bible said it would be.
When I needed a job when I was younger and had just failed a job interview, God spoke to me in a voice and and reminded me I had done everthing but pray about getting a job. So I prayed, and as soon as I said the A of Amen. The phone next to me rang, and the man on the other end of the line asked me if I could start work for their company the next monday morning.
Once when I was praying and thanking God for my life, He spoke to me again, and right while I was in the middle of my prayer. And He told me, my wife was going to have a child. I found out four hours after that encounter. That my wife was pregnant. Yet, I knew she was pregnant even before she knew.
Another time, I got out of my truck and closed the door and told Jesus I loved him. Less than a minute later, a ten inch balloon came down from high up in the sky and squeezed through a 4 inch opening in a gate and almost hit me in the face. I caught the balloon in my hands, and when I turned it over, printed on the other side of the balloon were the words. "I LOVE YOU".
My faith is not built on Hal Lindsey. My faith is built on Jesus Christ. And when so many of my age spent their time getting high or drunk. I spent my time seeking Christ. And I would not trade one day of this world, for my relationship with Him. The prophecies of the Bible will be fulfilled just as the Bible tells us they will be. And according to the Scriptures, the world we find ourselves in will begin to fall apart very soon. And before the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, things here in American will really begin to deteriorate, for the Bible speaks in detail of America's future.
I am not assuming anything. God told Ezekiel and Daniel to seal up the prophecy because it was a long time off (400+ years in the future). In Revelation, John is told NOT to seal the prophecy because it is near..
It is you who claim that 2000 years is near and 400 is a long time off.
Where do find that an army of 200 million men will need to be raised in an army?
The OT prophecy that stated that Jewish people will return to Israel... and they did return in the first century. They were exiled in the OT and we see they inhabited the region in the first century! That has been fulfilled. If you want to create another exile.. that is your choice but it is not scriptural.
The Bible tells us, that in God's time, 2,000 years only equals two of His days.
And the Jews who returned in the first century, did not fulfill the prophecy of Ezekiel. Because Ezekiels prophecy stated that when they would return, they (would never be removed) from their land. The Romans did remove them in 70 A.D., so it is obvious, the prophecy was not fulfilled. Also, Zec. 12 states than when they do return, they would occupy Juda first, which is southern Israel. That did not occur in the first century, and the few that did return, returned to Jerusalem, not Juda. Yet in 1948, southern Israel was occupied first, and Jerusalem was retaken second in 1967. And it was in those years, when the prophecy was truly fulfilled. And God states, that when they return, the focus of world attention would be on the control of Jerusalem. And God at this time will see to it, that no enemy would be able to move them from their land ever again. So here again, such events of the past did not live up to the prophecy. These events, are for the future.
The popular teaching about what even the world calls "The Battle of Armeggedon" is another case of an unopened Bible on coffee table display. Bother to look it up and you will not be able to find any battle! The nations only gather to battle.
Additionally, the real Meggido Valley is measurable topography in the Near East. To simplify, it's approximately 5 miles wide and 200 miles long. Since the blood "flows to the horses bridles," or, "gushes," NOT "splashes," it is about 5 feet deep. How many quarts of blood are needed to fill a volume 5 miles x 200 miles x 5 feet? Divide the total by 8 because the adult human body has about 8 quarts of blood in it. You do the math. (Hint: it takes over 9 trillion corpses drained dry.) Assuming 6 billion people are alive today, we need more than a billion, 500 million persons for every 1 alive today to provide that amount of blood. Well, you can fiddle with the figures to your hearts delight. The point is, why would the place where the real "warfare is accomplished," the valley between your ears, be considered "symbolic" nonsense, calculated to deceive, when the "literalist's" deal is an obvious fraud?
The popular teaching about what even the world calls "The Battle of Armeggedon" is another case of an unopened Bible on coffee table display. Bother to look it up and you will not be able to find any battle! The nations only gather to battle.
Additionally, the real Meggido Valley is measurable topography in the Near East. To simplify, it's approximately 5 miles wide and 200 miles long. Since the blood "flows to the horses bridles," or, "gushes," NOT "splashes," it is about 5 feet deep. How many quarts of blood are needed to fill a volume 5 miles x 200 miles x 5 feet? Divide the total by 8 because the adult human body has about 8 quarts of blood in it. You do the math. (Hint: it takes over 9 trillion corpses drained dry.) Assuming 6 billion people are alive today, we need more than a billion, 500 million persons for every 1 alive today to provide that amount of blood. Well, you can fiddle with the figures to your hearts delight. The point is, why would the place where the real "warfare is accomplished," the valley between your ears, be considered "symbolic" nonsense, calculated to deceive, when the real deal is an impossibility?
I was taught in Anatomy and Physiology (not to mention my Phlebotomy courses) that the body actually contains 5-6 quarts of blood for a 160 pound person... That said you can't really just multiply miles and feet and come up with an answer.. You would have to convert the miles to feet first. right? Plus the blood would be displaced by the bodies so that would lower the amount...of actual blood needed.
It seems that if men were shoulder to shoulder in the valley of megiddo about 6 billion could fit (not accounting for horses) now if the bodies were trampled and emptied of blood there would be about 2 ft of body and 2.5 ft of blood. (allowing for the .5 ft of displacement). It would take 4,170,898,285,760 quarts of blood to fill that whole space without any bodies... with bodies and blood it would take the blood of approx... 297 billion people to fill the valley of megiddo with blood five feet high according to my calculations usin the specific density of blood at 1.0621. I did not account for rocks, trees, bodies of horses, armor, absorption of blood into the ground, etc. but yes as you can see it is impossible to be literal and I agree that their calculations are very conservative considering mine which are not at all accurate but only an estimate. So both armies would need to equal about 297 billion people. This is impossible considering there have only been (conservatively) 108 billion people born in the world since the human race began (see Home - Population Reference Bureau).
Nonetheless, even if all the armies in the world were gathered together they would never equal 200 million. China has 2.5 million, US 1.5 million... etc. 1/3 of men on earth are supposed to perish in this battle, yet that would be 2 billion.. much more than the supposed 200 million men in the army. There are some who estimate a total of perhaps 80 million people fought in WW2...
That said.. my mind is now tired so I must take a nap..
People.. verify the information you have using mathematics before you go around saying that there will be an army of 200 million! These figures are false and misleading!!! The apocalyptic language is not to be taken literally as I have just proven and I am no mathematical genius by any means.
The Bible tells us, that in God's time, 2,000 years only equals two of His days.
Actually it states this:
1 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
So one day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is 1 day... that means that TO GOD a human day is still a human day... the verse is saying the same thing as here:
Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.
Meaning that to an eternal being time does not exist.. when talking to humans who are bound by time though God never says 1 day and means 1000.. a long time is from our perspective not his... so 1000 years equals 1000 years HUMAN time...
That means that when God says to seal it up because it is well into the future (400 years) it means it is a long time off to us, as God doesn't have time. And 2000 years is not near but further in the future than 400 as is what I said earlier.
Quote:
And the Jews who returned in the first century, did not fulfill the prophecy of Ezekiel. Because Ezekiels prophecy stated that when they would return, they (would never be removed) from their land. The Romans did remove them in 70 A.D., so it is obvious, the prophecy was not fulfilled.
Clarification.. the Jews ran they weren't removed, they were slaughtered and chose to remove themselves!
Quote:
Also, Zec. 12 states than when they do return, they would occupy Juda first, which is southern Israel. That did not occur in the first century, and the few that did return, returned to Jerusalem, not Juda. Yet in 1948, southern Israel was occupied first, and Jerusalem was retaken second in 1967. And it was in those years, when the prophecy was truly fulfilled. And God states, that when they return, the focus of world attention would be on the control of Jerusalem. And God at this time will see to it, that no enemy would be able to move them from their land ever again. So here again, such events of the past did not live up to the prophecy. These events, are for the future.
It is common knowledge that it did fulfill the prophecy and you should talk to your pastor because I am positive he will say that the fulfillment is two-fold thus it happened already but will happen again.. this is not true but I am positive that is the explanation that will be given.
Here is an excerpt from wikipedia and is easily verifiable: The exile to Babylon was a traumatic event in Jewish history, as the destruction of the political independence of the kingdom coincided with the destruction of the monarchy and of the First Temple of Jerusalem. Prior to this, several deportations of Judaean nobility and leading citizens occurred.After the overthrow of Babylonia by the Persian Empire, the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great gave Jews permission to return to their homeland in 538 BCE, and more than 40,000 are said to have returned, as noted in the Biblical accounts of Jehoiakim, Ezra, and Nehemiah. The Babylonian captivity had a number of serious effects on Judaism and the Jewish culture, including changes to the Hebrew alphabet and changes in the fundamental practices and customs of the Jewish religion. This period saw the last high-point of Biblical prophecy in the person of Ezekiel, followed by the emergence of the central role of the Torah in Jewish life. This process coincided with the emergence of scribes and sages as Jewish leaders (see Ezra and the Pharisees).Babylonian captivity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Actually it states this:
1 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.......Meaning that to an eternal being time does not exist..
Amazing.
I actually agree with this basic statement. That is because Millennialism, Preterist attempts to put a preconceived time table to the Bible then apply the human events to it, making far fetched (and sometimes desperat scenerios) based on news headlines. The result is to prediction the end of the world.....which is to challenge God's soverignty of knowledge to such a date, time, year.
By conviction, "amillennialism" is how I would describe your basic statement and how the Bible teaches end-times.
Last edited by twin.spin; 10-24-2009 at 08:56 PM..
Reason: "table" was typed in the incorrect place
Amazing.
I actually agree with this basic statement. That is because Millennialism, Preterist attempts to put a preconceived time to the Bible table then apply the human events to it, making far fetched (and sometimes desperat scenerios) based on news headlines. The result is to prediction the end of the world.....which is to challenge God's soverignty of knowledge to such a date, time, year.
By conviction, "amillennialism" is how I would describe your basic statement and how the Bible teaches end-times.
I agree that the 1000 year reign has little to do with the 1000 years and the statement itself is facetious.
I don't understand the statement you make here:
"Preterist attempts to put a preconceived time to the Bible table then apply the human events to it, making far fetched (and sometimes desperat scenerios) based on news headlines."
Could you elaborate? I think it is futurists who take every news headline and apply it to the end times.. preterists take no notice of headlines because they believe all prophecy has been fulfilled..
Thanks in advance for clarification of the sentence. I am perhaps too tired to read it and understand as I spent most of last night with a friend who was in need of a birthday celebration .
I agree that the 1000 year reign has little to do with the 1000 years and the statement itself is facetious.
I don't understand the statement you make here:
"Preterist attempts to put a preconceived time to the Bible table then apply the human events to it, making far fetched (and sometimes desperat scenerios) based on news headlines."
Could you elaborate? I think it is futurists who take every news headline and apply it to the end times.. preterists take no notice of headlines because they believe all prophecy has been fulfilled..
Thanks in advance for clarification of the sentence. I am perhaps too tired to read it and understand as I spent most of last night with a friend who was in need of a birthday celebration .
It should have been typed as:
"That is because Millennialism, Preterist attempts to put a preconceived time table to the Bible then apply the human events to it, making far fetched (and sometimes desperat scenerios) based on news headlines."
After the countless posts from preterists, I'm convinced that preterism\ists come to that belief because false of predictions of former years gone by. The result so as not to be disappointed, the other extreme happens....make the return happen in 70 AD. Which ever way you look at it, both are limiting God to human calander of events.
Jack Van Impe is a good example, so is the Mayan calander thing. Imagine all of the cases of "athletes tongue" there will be when the world doesn't end in 2012....?
I understand that preterism concludes that all is fulfilled (my understanding of preterism is primarily based on this board posts). Certian things about end times that are spoken by Jesus just make preterism incorrect....i.e. "every eye will see". It's like the "all means all" debate, "every means every", right? Well, this eye of this writer hasn't seen Jesus return and chances are you haven't either.
But it's getting late and I'm signing off
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Battle? of Armeggedon
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