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Old 01-07-2010, 06:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
A gasp in the darkness? This sounds sarcastic and judgmental Harold So you pray before you post here?

Hmmmm your reading skills may be a bit rusty... it was "A light in the darkness" not a gasp in the darkness.

(Now that is sarcasm)

HK
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,436,651 times
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[quote=Harold Kupp;12345103][quote=Raelyn28;12344868]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post

Didn't Jesus come and die because he KNEW that it was impossible for man to keep these commandments? If man could keep the commandments therefore resulting in the righteousness of man then really Jesus's work on the cross was done for nothing?.
2 Corinthians 3:6 (Amplified Bible)

That is the modern Christian wisdom (read - propaganda) If you want the truth listen to the apostle:

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

If it was impossible to keep God's commandments then John is speaking nonsense.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So, ask the people who taught you that it was impossible to keep God's commandments if they keep them. Obviously they would say "No". The conclusion is equally obvious.


HK

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
JUSTIFIED. This verb, and related words from the same Greek root (e.g. justification), occur some 30 times in Romans and are concentrated in 2:13-5:1. This legal or forensic term comes from the Greek word "righteous" and means "to declare righteous. This verdict includes: pardon from the guilt and penalty of sin, and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the believer's account, which provides for the positive righteousness man needs to be accepted by God. God declares a sinner righteous solely on the basis of the merits of Christ's righteousness. God imputed a believer's sin to Christ's account in His sacrificial death (Is 53:4,5; I Peter 2:24) and He imputes Christ's perfect obedience to God's law to Christians. (I Corin 1:30). The sinner receives this gift of God's grace by faith alone . Sanctification, the work of God by which He makes righteous
those whom He has already justified is distinct from justification but without exception, always follows it. ( Romans 8:30) a gift by His Grace. Justification is a gracious gift God extends to the repentant, believing sinner, wholly apart from human merit or work.

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Old 01-07-2010, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,436,651 times
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[quote=Harold Kupp;12345103][quote=Raelyn28;12344868][quote=Harold Kupp;12332893]

Didn't Jesus come and die because he KNEW that it was impossible for man to keep these commandments? If man could keep the commandments therefore resulting in the righteousness of man then really Jesus's work on the cross was done for nothing?.
2 Corinthians 3:6 (Amplified Bible)

That is the modern Christian wisdom (read - propaganda) If you want the truth listen to the apostle:

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

If it was impossible to keep God's commandments then John is speaking nonsense.


I John goes on to say in 2:12 that we as believers are all at different levels in our Christian walk. Some of us are "little children", some our fathers, some are young men and we need to grow in our relationship and life in Christ. Just like a baby first needs to be feed and taken care of then learns to walk and falls down while learning... there are Christians that are growing in Grace and knowledge spiritially as well. We are all in different phases of our walk.. In other words my obedience to Christ may be to read the Word, love my children or my neighbors yet the Christians call to obedience next door may be to go to Africa.

Tell me Harold.. Exactly how are you obedient to Christ and do you do those things 100% all the time with no flaws, mistakes or falls? Just wondering.

Last edited by Raelyn28; 01-07-2010 at 07:22 PM..
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,436,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Hmmmm your reading skills may be a bit rusty... it was "A light in the darkness" not a gasp in the darkness.

(Now that is sarcasm)



HK
alright then... You said "gasp" a light in the darkness. My mistake but still the same response just the same. Isn't that a bit sarcastic?
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:12 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,500,807 times
Reputation: 116
[quote=Raelyn28;12345689][quote=Harold Kupp;12345103]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post

Justification is a gracious gift God extends to the repentant, believing sinner, wholly apart from human merit or work.

More modern Christian wisdom... Poor Paul he just did not have the benefit of listening to them (or you)

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And John - what a fool compared to modern wisdom. Did you know that John actually thought that the righteous were those who lived rightous?

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Hmmmm it sounds like he was warning us that some might try to teach that a person was righteous even if they did not live righteous. Ummm that is what you believe - right?

You believe a child of God could do unrighteousness and still be a child of God - right?

Silly John - he disagrees with you...

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,

The essence of deception is that the deceived person does not know they are deceived.

HK
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:14 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,500,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
alright then... You said "gasp" a light in the darkness. My mistake but still the same response just the same. Isn't that a bit sarcastic?

Nope - your reading skills are still in question. I was giving the writer a pat on the back.

HK
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,436,651 times
Reputation: 564
[quote=Harold Kupp;12346615][quote=Raelyn28;12345689]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post


More modern Christian wisdom... Poor Paul he just did not have the benefit of listening to them (or you)

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And John - what a fool compared to modern wisdom. Did you know that John actually thought that the righteous were those who lived rightous?

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Hmmmm it sounds like he was warning us that some might try to teach that a person was righteous even if they did not live righteous. Ummm that is what you believe - right?

You believe a child of God could do unrighteousness and still be a child of God - right?

Silly John - he disagrees with you...

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,

The essence of deception is that the deceived person does not know they are deceived.

HK
Then you may want to take it up with Senior Pastor, Teacher and Theologian John MacArthur because I received that teaching from him.

His fruit bears witness of his standing with God. Does your name bare the same righteous fruits??

I am really done with your posts so I will be ignoring them now. They are sounding like a noisy gong lacking the greatest of all commandments which is LOVE. You are sounding VERY noisy Mr. Kupp and I am tired of listening to noisy, clanging instruments that have no melody or for that matter are even in harmony with the rest of the orchestra...

1 Corinthians 13

1IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such [a]as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

NOTICE THE ONLY and continue to read the chapter.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,436,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Nope - your reading skills are still in question. I was giving the writer a pat on the back.

HK
while you were mocking him...Hmm, now isn't that special.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:37 PM
 
10,597 posts, read 10,743,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
Hi, I keep hearing the word "OBEDIENCE" everywhere I turn anymore. Truthfully and honestly I realize it is a Christian word and it is in the Bible many times, however the word always makes me think of some training class for dogs or something. I guess what I am saying is the word sounds harsh to me. Through the years I have often had the word used by well-meaning but judgmental Christians in a negative kind of condemning way.

Please don't get me wrong, I understand that we have to do the things God is telling us to do and I am not against that. God has a blueprint for our lives and if we don't listen we suffer consequences. He knows us best and we need to follow Him if we desire all His blessings. I believe it is sin to rebel against God.

I am really being honest here but for some reason I don't like the word "OBEDIENCE". It just sounds so commanding or controlling and I had a controlling mom... Alright now that I have been honest with you I am curious what does the Word "OBEDIENCE" mean for you???

I am interested in detailed definitions, links, etc.

Thanks,
Raelyn
The term means nothing if "WE" are defining what Obedience looks like. Only the superior party can determine that.....and that is God.

And he already knows that you don't like it. That is called having a sin nature. We are all born rebelling against God. Romans 7 talks about a war within our own minds to obey God or do what we want to do. That's what got us in this mess in the Garden of Eden. Disobedience.

But understand this.....Love means nothing unless it is given freely. To God, obedience is our expression of love to him. As a child loves his Father....God wants that love from us to Him. We express it in obedience. He gave us the ability to choose, for that reason.

Also know that He is not trying to spoil our fun. He just knows what is bad for us and He also knows that He MUST deal with us if we sin.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,436,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenkane2 View Post
The term means nothing if "WE" are defining what Obedience looks like. Only the superior party can determine that.....and that is God.

And he already knows that you don't like it. That is called having a sin nature. We are all born rebelling against God. Romans 7 talks about a war within our own minds to obey God or do what we want to do. That's what got us in this mess in the Garden of Eden. Disobedience.

But understand this.....Love means nothing unless it is given freely. To God, obedience is our expression of love to him. As a child loves his Father....God wants that love from us to Him. We express it in obedience. He gave us the ability to choose, for that reason.

Also know that He is not trying to spoil our fun. He just knows what is bad for us and He also knows that He MUST deal with us if we sin.
Very good, thankyou for getting this discussion back "on topic". I almost was de-railed but God is in control here.

I agree with what you said. God gives all men a free choice and He wants and desires for us to Love Him. As we renew our minds through His Word He will equip us with all we need to live this life in obedience and fulfillment. Truly He is the vine and apart from Him we can do nothing. So we need to stay "rooted and grounded" in Him.

Even a dog cannot obey unless it is first "trained". Therefore, we all need to be trained through the Word. Our senses and mind needs to come under submission.

The greatest thing that I have learned through this thread is to obey God and get into His Word. And He has said, do not look to the right or to the left but look at me. I am obeying in the things he has told me to do.. Praise God for His unchangable Mercy, Grace and Love...

God bless and thanks again for sharing.
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