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Jesus is God? Did not Jesus say:
Joh 20:17 which is the term for "Teacher.Jesus is saying to her, "Do not touch Me, for not as yet have I ascended to My Father. Now go to My brethren, and say to them that I said, 'Lo! I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"
By the above Jesus was telling them He is not their God nor their Father.
Jesus can carry the title "God." By the way, I believe in the divinity of Christ, He was divine but He is not the invisible Deity filling heaven and earth.
As the God-Man, Jesus was free to speak from the standpoint of His deity, or from the standpoint of his humanity, or from the standpoint of His entire Person-His hypostatic union.
In John 20:17 He was speaking from the standpoint of His resurrected humanity.
On the other hand, when He said in John 8:58 ''Before Abraham was, I AM,'' He was speaking from His deity.
In John 14:6 'Jesus said to him, ''I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.'', He was speaking from the standpoint of His hypostatic union.
Jesus was neither omniscient ("only the Father knows), nor omnipresent (he had a body... ).
Jesus was a Man, the mediator, son of man, son of God, image of God, but not God.
I think this is where all the misunderstandings come in. Just because Jesus' human consciousness had limitations does not change who He was in essence (ie: the one true God living in a clay jar ).It is much as is the case with us: "Beloved, we are God's sons now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is". 1 Jn. 3:2
BTW - I am NOT a trinitarian. Some call this "modalism" - another terrible heresy I may identify with (and I am SO grateful that they don't burn us alive anymore!!!).
2 Cor. 4:7 "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves"
Most of Christianity wants to deify His humanity. Most others want to un-deify His essence.
So once again - I stand as correct and almost everyone else in the world is confused (that's a joke BTW - sort of)
Because they are one. When God forsake Christ, why did He do this?
Actually didn't Christ FEEL as if God had forsaken him? He asked WHY just the same way as he prayed... to heaven. Christ cried out in pain to God.... Why have you forsaken me!
Psalm 22:1 For the director of music. To [the tune of] "The Doe of the Morning." A psalm of David. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"
The Hebrew text shows "Eli Eli, lama azavtani" But Jesus puts a spin on it when he uses the Aramaic Sabachthani, corresponding to Shebaq in the Hebrew which means... to leave or let alone.
He carried the sins of the world and God did not take the cup from him but instead let him alone to endure it.
So two things can be surmised:
1. God left Jesus, the man, to died on the cross like some sort of possessed being and thus God did not die on the cross but a mere human.
2. It is a simple cry of pain and distress before giving up his life.
I think this is where all the misunderstandings come in. Just because Jesus' human consciousness had limitations does not change who He was in essence (ie: the one true God living in a clay jar ).It is much as is the case with us: "Beloved, we are God's sons now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is". 1 Jn. 3:2
If the OT states that God encompasses heaven and earth then I have trouble seeing him as a genie in a bottle. The other way to look at it was that Jesus was possessed by God as some would be possessed by a demon. However that hardly seems right because then it is not too shocking why Jesus was sinless.
We cannot be like God. We cannot be perfect or a spirit. So if we are told that we can be like Jesus then Jesus cannot be God.
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BTW - I am NOT a trinitarian. Some call this "modalism" - another terrible heresy I may identify with (and I am SO grateful that they don't burn us alive anymore!!!).
LOL same here! There wouldn't be any need for lightposts...
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2 Cor. 4:7 "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves"
Most of Christianity wants to deify His humanity. Most others want to un-deify His essence.
My view is simple. The bible is silent about Christ's DEITY but it is not silent about his being mortal. Therefore, I believe that by using the HS to full capacity Jesus was a MAN who was able to live with a clear conscience that everything he did was approved by God. So we can do that to by taking full advantage of the helper (HS) given to us. We are all capable of being gods in a jar!
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So once again - I stand as correct and almost everyone else in the world is confused (that's a joke BTW - sort of)
Dear Mike555, I see you have to use man-made invented words like "hypostatic union." Those words are not part of God's divine revaltion to us and should be relegated to the dung heap.
In John 20:17, when Jesus said "I am ascending to My God and your God" He was speaking from the standpoint of His resurrected divinity. He was telling the disciples He is not their God.
Please note in Revelation years after His resurrection and sitting at the right hand of His God He said:
Rev 3:12 '"The one who is conquering, him will I be making a pillar in the temple ofMy God, and he may be coming out nevermore, and I will be writing on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which is descending out of heaven from My God, and My new name."
One who has a God cannot be THAT God. God cannot die. If the invisible Deity filling heaven and earth and by Whom all things subsist had died then every being in the universe would instantly have died too.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
As the God-Man, Jesus was free to speak from the standpoint of His deity, or from the standpoint of his humanity, or from the standpoint of His entire Person-His hypostatic union.
In John 20:17 He was speaking from the standpoint of His resurrected humanity.
On the other hand, when He said in John 8:58 ''Before Abraham was, I AM,'' He was speaking from His deity.
In John 14:6 'Jesus said to him, ''I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.'', He was speaking from the standpoint of His hypostatic union.
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).It is much as is the case with us: "Beloved, we are God's sons now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is". 1 Jn. 3:2
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