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Ethnicity mainly has to do with language and culture. The people who are obsessed with genetics are splitting hairs and IMO are loons.
I'm sure many Englishmen are of part Irish, Welsh, Scottish descent. And in turn many people from those countries have some English or other type of British/Irish in them.
But the defenition of ethnicity is " a social group that shares a common and distinctive culture, religion, language,". In which case they are all separate although similar ehtnicities.
Is Phil Jones, famous English footballer less English because he has a welsh surname? Or is Carl Frampton, famous northern irish boxer less Irish because he has an English surname?
It seems like the "race, genetics and germanic" obsessed crowd in this forum fails to realise that people have mixed with each other. Its rarely clear cut that one person is 100% english descent and one 100% irish descent,
I find the genetics fascinating and I'm not in the least racist. It's just interesting to know your ancestry. A lot of people are into genetics now and it is usually done in conjunction with doing your family tree. The Germanic and Celtic thing is way overdone so I do agree with that bit.
Oh well, great question! The people of the British Isles are quite similar ( a small example :they all have high frequencies of redheads in comparison to other European groups), but they also different. We could say that the Irish, Welsh, most Scottish are close in the same way the Danes, Swedes, Norwegians are. However the English, the eastern Scots show the Celtic/Ancient Brythonic, as well as the Germanic side, thus are different in that sense. Even the Cornish who are the "most Celtic" of the English, are still genetically closer to the other English than they would be to the Welsh or the Irish. However each country of the British Isles has its own character. The English have their own character, so do the Welsh and so forth.
The PoBI study covered Northern Ireland but not the rest of Ireland. The pre-plantation Northern Irish are similar to people from the Scottish highlands whilst the plantation Northern Irish are similar to South West Scots which makes perfect sense.
The Irish study is called the Irish DNA Atlas and it is in the analysis stage at the moment. Once the results are released it will be added to the PoBI study.
The PoBI whilst having 17 clusters still shows that all the populations studied are very similar and they had to use very fine scale analysis to tease the clusters apart. All those populations have similar ancestry sources but just slightly different percentages.
The PoBI study covered Northern Ireland but not the rest of Ireland. The pre-plantation Northern Irish are similar to people from the Scottish highlands whilst the plantation Northern Irish are similar to South West Scots which makes perfect sense.
The Irish study is called the Irish DNA Atlas and it is in the analysis stage at the moment. Once the results are released it will be added to the PoBI study.
The PoBI whilst having 17 clusters still shows that all the populations studied are very similar and they had to use very fine scale analysis to tease the clusters apart. All those populations have similar ancestry sources but just slightly different percentages.
Trust me, after the Irish DNA project will be done. It is more likely that they would still have more similarities to the people of western Scotland than to those in the Orkneys, Shetland Isles, Herbrides, central, eastern and southern England. Yes, the people of British Isles are similar, they share an ancient ancestry but Germanic invasion of the Anglo-Saxons made an impact enough to differentiate, You know that a good part of England is somewhat homogenous due to that and secondly that of the Vikings in northern regions of Scotland. So there is a continuum, nevertheless, overall, the English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh are all North-West Europeans and will cluster easily with other North-West mainland Europeans. It is also one of the reason that makes it difficult to differentiate them.
Location: Northern Ireland and temporarily England
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I have yet to do a dna test but I believe my paternal family is from Kirkcudbrightshire in SW Scotland. I think most of the planters in my area came from there.
If they do locate by area I would say a high % will pop up from there. In NI, its very different though, its all dependent on where the settlers came from and each county and council area had settlers from different parts of Scotland.
The Irish and Scottish populations in genetic studies have shown the lowest frequency in haplotype diversity in comparison to continental European populations, while the English show a little more than the Irish and Scottish. Scandinavians such as the Swedes show more than the British and Irish. The highest levels in haplotype diversity are found in Southern European populations such as the Portuguese and Bulgarians. The geographical location of the British Isles must have played a role in that.
The highest levels in haplotype diversity are found in Southern European populations such as the Portuguese and Bulgarians. The geographical location of the British Isles must have played a role in that.
Portuguese? Austrians, Hungarians, Serbians, Romanians show more variation.
Central and south-East Europe is most diverse, while north-West (UK) and south-West (Spain) least.
Nope, my statement is based on the results of studies. The Iberian populations shows the highest frequency in haplotype diversity (HD) in Europe.
The Iberian peninsula (especially Spain) is very homogenous, with R1b haplogroup being represented by the absolute majority of people...the other haplogroups represent a much smaller % of the population.
The Iberian peninsula (especially Spain) is very homogenous, with R1b haplogroup being represented by the absolute majority of people...the other haplogroups represent a much smaller % of the population.
I would've expected of you to know that
I know much more than you can ever imagine!
You are confused as heck! You are confusing haplogroups with haplotypes. I was referring to haplotype diversity which you probably need to do more study on. The study on which my statement is based, concludes that in terms of haplotype diversity it highest in southern regions of Europe and lowest in Ireland and Scotland. This is as expect, since the British Isles are located off the coast of northwestern Europe, then humans came there later than they would have in Spain or Bulgaria for example. Yes in Western Europe, the Y-haplogroup which scores the highest is the R1b, however there are various subclades depending on the region, within the most common subclade is R1b-L21. The R1b-L21 is most common in Wales, Ireland, parts of western Scotland and less common in eastern Scotland and England. Northwestern Germany also show some high frequencies of R1b-L21. The other subclade which is more common in continental Germanic countries is the R1b, which is commonest in the Netherlands and fair common in England too, but less common in Ireland or Wales. The R1b subclade commonest in Iberia is the R1b-DF27, which is not common at all in the British Isles!
This is the commonest R1b suclade in the British Isles is called the R1b-L21 also known as R1b-S145/Pretani (Brythonic).
Outside of the British Isles, it not that common. In Spain, is found only in 3% of the male population.
Last edited by saxonwold; 06-05-2015 at 01:57 PM..
The Iberian peninsula (especially Spain) is very homogenous, with R1b haplogroup being represented by the absolute majority of people...the other haplogroups represent a much smaller % of the population.
I would've expected of you to know that
Now remember the Y-DNA does not represent the entire genome of a population. It could give clues though. So we cannot derive a conclusion of a population being homogenous, just by looking at the Y-haplogroup.
The R1b-S21/U106 subclade which is commonest in Germanic-speaking countries notably The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, northern Germany and Rhineland, England, Scottish Lowlands and Denmark. Western Germanic people have been linked with this subclade, the Frisians, Angles, Saxons, Franks and so forth.
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