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Not to go to far off the topic but Mark Twain actually lived in Connecticut for a time. I wonder if that is why he chose someone from Connecticut to be his Yankee in King Arthur's Court?
Anyway, from Hartford, Twain would vacation in Upstate New York in Elmira. And he spent a lot of time in the New York City area where there are quite a number of buildings standing that he once visited.
Oh, that comment was just to take to task the previous guy that is taking this little conversation WAY TOO seriously. Mentioned that a Yankee was actually a pie eater in Vermont. Thus my reply.
What should be a fun little discussion about different people's perceptions of what makes something northern in their mind has turned into a win at all cost brawl of who is right and who is wrong. Too strong for this genteel southerner....
I get what your trying to say. I have lived in the upper Midwest before, rural far northern Michigan. I currently live in Rural Tennessee. I have never lived in the northeast but have spent some time there for work. First I will repeat what I said from previous posts, the upper Midwest is nothing like the northeast. Having lived in the Midwest and currently in the South this is how I see it.
The upper Midwest has a culture based in it German and Scandinavian roots, it is a rural culture at its core, it is strongly religious (in a different more reserved way than the south) and politically its complicated. It’s politics are center or even a bit right of center on social issues, left of center on economic issues.
The northeast is far more urban, fast paced and down to business, it is not a polite society like the Midwest. There is no “Minnesota nice” in New York. People in the NE just tell you how they feel. The northeast culture is more a mix of Italian, Eastern Europeans and Anglophone Americans, quite different from the Northern Europeans that make up most of the Midwest.
The south is a mix of Anglophone, Celtic, and black heritage. It is religious and conservative. People are open and friendly for the most part. Like the Midwest the south is a rural culture, slower paced and easy going.
Those are my takes on the three regions and IMO they are all quite different from one another. Some posters claim the Midwest and northeast are the same and somehow the north is a culturally homogeneous region. It is not and those claims are based on an erroneous belief that because the early settlers of the Midwest were from the northeast that somehow the Yankee culture still dominates today. This view discounts the reality that hundreds of thousands of German and Scandinavian immigrants overwhelmed the culture of the tens of thousands of original Yankee settlers of the Midwest. The nature, accent and religious beliefs of the modern Midwesterner has far more to do with the German/Scandinavian immigrants than it does with a few New Yorkers who followed the Erie Canal west. Really the place names they left behind are all that remains of New York culture. The other argument they use is the Midwest’s union stance in the war. That really was more of an alliance of two regions against one rather than it being evidence of the two regions being similar. The German farmers were small operators, did not use slaves and were accustomed to a strong authoritarian government. States rights and planter society were not something Germans were likely to support. This is my opinion on why the two regions found common cause. After the war the Midwest and northeast did not see eye to eye. They distrusted the eastern establishment. Famous Midwesterner Henry Ford really distrusted Eastern interest.
The idea that the North is some culturally unified region is ridiculous. Even the south which does have more degree of cultural unity is not all the same. Tennessee is not the same as Louisiana, nor is Louisiana the same as South Carolina. These discussions never include the western US. Is Alaska not the ultimate northern state? It’s not even on the poll. What about Washington? Montana? They are pretty Northern in my opinion. This poll has always been about the cultural north. The OP doesn’t believe that means just the northeast but to most Americans it does. The cultural north is a fast paced urban culture where people talk with that funny northeast accent. Let’s be honest if this were about geography alone Alaska is the undeniable winner
Ok so Midwest accents are German influenced and also places like Cleveland, Chicago are slow paced and genteel.
Good trolling effort.
Brb going to fast paced Upstate New York
Brb going to the huge metropolis of Vermont
Brb going to speak in my German influenced Chicago/Minnesota/Cincinnati/Detroit/St. Louis accent
Brb going to travel hundreds of miles to Pittsburgh to get Italian and Polish food that isn't available here in the Great Lakes
Brb going to hit up numerous Southern Baptist churches full of Bible thumping Evangelicals
Brb going to drive 20 minutes to travel 20 miles
Brb going to misinterpret passive aggression as Southern hospitality
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why good Italian food is necessary for a northern state...
Because the Civil War was between the army of Paul, Vito, and Petey vs the army of Blake, Chris, and Chase over who had the best cuisine. The former 3 made the latter 3 eat their weight in canolis until they passed out.
Because the Civil War was between the army of Paul, Vito, and Petey vs the army of Blake, Chris, and Chase over who had the best cuisine. The former 3 made the latter 3 eat their weight in canolis until they passed out.
This is a loaded statement, because the Midwest is such a large and diverse region that yes, SOME parts (like Kansas, Missouri, lower Illinois and Indiana) are more aligned with the South, but other parts like Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, northern Illinois, Michigan and Ohio are NOT. Presidential elections don't paint the whole picture. Most of the people who voted for Trump in Minnesota did not vote for the reason or have the same values as those who voted for Trump in Arkansas. All of this is irrelevant, though, as it does not make the Midwest any less northern.
Also, we need to stop using the 2016 election as a political compass on how states normally vote, because that election was not just a sh*t show... it was a diarrhea opera. Neither of the two major candidates were popular and it was a very polarising year, politically. Look at past trends from the 2012 and before that. Obama was likeable, Bush was likeable, Bill Clinton was likeable, and out of the two, Trump was more likeable than Hillary but far, far more controversial at the same time.
Regardless you don't get Paul Ryan, Michielle Bauchman, Paul Walker, Mike Pence, Rick Schneider type Republican elected in New England you do in the South. The last time a Republican was elected to the House of Reps in Southern New England was 1996. It's a pattern that the Midwest is more conservative than the Northeast not an anomaly.
"Northern" Culture gets diluted as you move west and the divining between the North and South slowly blends into the West.
Regardless you don't get Paul Ryan, Michielle Bauchman, Paul Walker, Mike Pence, Rick Schneider type Republican elected in New England you do in the South. The last time a Republican was elected to the House of Reps in Southern New England was 1996. It's a pattern that the Midwest is more conservative than the Northeast not an anomaly.
"Northern" Culture gets diluted as you move west and the divining between the North and South slowly blends into the West.
Bruh the Rust Belt has historically been known as a Union friendly region of Blue collar, Blue dog Democrats. That's not "conservative" anymore than your Italians over in Jersey. The Northeast still produces people like Jeanine Pirro, Chris Christie, and the moron in chief. Don't try and act like idiocy doesn't exist over in your corner.
Literally people from the Midwest (the Upper Midwest mind you) are telling you our core values and you want to dismiss it in favor of college football and Germanic people which honestly have nothing to do with regional identity. We have some rubes here don't get me wrong but your view of the Upper Midwest being "not Northern" is based on arbitrary definitions that YOU set.
Again, the reason the West isn't divided between North and South is because Americans that settled the West (outside of Okies and few other Appalachian groups) were mostly Northerners. This is why things like heavy religious identity never really took hold out West. Western culture became a mishmash of opportunistic rebels mostly hailing from the North.
But that's the West and isn't part of the discussion. Minnesota, Wisconsin, the UP etc are NOT the West. And even if they were, it certainly doesn't add anything to them leaning more Southern.
Again, people from these regions themselves are telling you where they identify and where the fit in.
Honestly ask yourself this. Is someone from the Upper Midwest going to stand out more in New England or in the South? If you really think they'd fit in more in the South you really haven't met many people from the Upper Midwest at all. Just lol @ these wacky ideas.
No the Midwest has more in common with the South than New England has with the South, but they are more like each other than the South. But because the Midwest is more similar to the South than NE is it's less Northern.
So glad I don't live contained in the bubble of your parameters. So sorry you have to.
And Btw just LOL @ using religion as some counter argument against Northern identity. When the lined were drawn, religion wasn't one of them. Interpretation of religion was. The way northern Protestants interpret religion is still more in line with Northern Catholics than with Southern Baptists.
Also, quit using the ridiculous Germanic argument. The Northeast was colonized by Germanic people. Was it "less Northern" then? New Netherlands and New Sweden anyone? And as far as New England? You guys want to act like they didn't set the pace for the dominant culture of the Midwest today? Because they DID.
The Midwest is basically known as the cradle of MIDDLE AMERICAN culture. If that is supposedly "Germanic" just LOL. The Midwest isn't hailed as some Little Europe. Our Europeans are probably older than those of the Northeast in terms of time in the US. So their culture would have more remnants of Yankee culture (the original NORTHERN culture) than some 100 year presence White ethnics of the Northeast.
Who has the most "typical" American culture? The Midwest. We are not renowned for our German dominant culture. We are known as MIDDLE AMERICA not LITTLE EUROPE. Stop acting like Germanic culture is somehow ingrained in the Midwest mindset. Even here in Cincinnati we call ourselves an AMERICAN city not a German one. And the Germans here were absorbed into mainstream American society and culture. People here are German but mixed with English and Irish as well. And by the way those English were mostly American born from New York and Pennsylvania. Northern runs through our veins and our values are much more aligned with original Yankee values than some Mediterraneans over in New England.
Before you go calling Middle American not Yankee, I think it is fair to say that a city like Boston is probably less in line with actual Yankee values than a place somewhere in Ohio is. Midwesterners are all about American pride just like Yankees were. Nowadays you have people in the Northeast ("Coastal Elites") who always love deriding the founding of this country. These are the same people who say they love American values but they would be shocked at some of the "backwards" way of thinking the East Anglian Puritans had. Call Midwest people backwater folk all you want but we don't get stereotyped as a time bubble for no reason.
So yeah who ahead call us less Northern and more Germanic but who is known as more typical of Yankee culture? Be honest. We maintain the Heart of American culture. People either rip us for not having enough immigrants to being too immigrant descended to be "as American". Which is it? Are we just boring Middle American types of hyper Germanic? I don't get how ANY of this is less Northern. Like Germanic people immediately landed in the Midwest without passing through the Northeast first. Just LOL
And please. Go ahead and call the Great Lakes region "not metropolitan" enough. Call it "not ethnic" enough (or not "Yankee" enough). Which is it? First we don't have enough White ethnics for your liking then we have too many of them to count as Yankee anymore. Name most ethnic groups the Northeast has. The Midwest has them too. New England has historically had groups in common with the Great Lakes but also with Canada. Does that make New England less Northern because it is less American? Or does it make it more Northern because it is more Canadian?
But oh wait. Minnesota is in the same boat as being stereotyped as more Canadian.
So again, move the goal posts all you want. Your own logic exposes you.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Addams
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why good Italian food is necessary for a northern state...
Especially considering how popular Italian food has gotten elsewhere too. In Baton Rouge there's a ton of Italian restaurants.
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