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I live in SE Texas, Houston to be exact. In comparison to Virginia, yes, you may have the Civil War History, but this is definately SOUTH. West Texas is the SOUTH WEST. There is no four seasons in Houston. You have four seasons in Virginia. It gets hotter than haedes here for a long time. How is VIRGINIA being the REAL SOUTH? Look, you must be basing your argument on the CIVIL WAR. I can see you are proud of your heritage, and there is nothing wrong with that. I think one must consider GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION, WEATHER, ATTITUDES, PROXIMITY TO OTHER CITIES to consider wheather Washington DC is a Northern or Southern entity. You claim to be in the REAL SOUTH but let me tell you something too. TEXAS has a rich history and tradition. I am not from here but I can appreciate their fight for independence against SANTA ANNA at the battle of SAN JACINTO and being under 6 different flags before becoming a state once again. They were under these flags. SPAIN, MEXICO, FRANCE, TEXAS, THE CONFEDERACY and THE UNITED STATES. I don't know how well you know history, but before you place your "Confederacy" of VIRGINIA as being the "REAL" south over fellow states that SHED BLOOD in their cause, I would be very careful on your approach. Especially if you look at a Texan in the eyes and give him that line. Good luck.
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Originally Posted by vasinger
Virginia is the farthest south of the Mid-Altantic states, and its really a South Atlantic State- along with the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida, and it has more in common in every way with the Carolinas than it does New Jersey or New York. Everything from its climate and culture. And in no way shape or form is Virginia a Northern state. Not even Northern Virginia which is very transient and a state of its own.
Its obvious you know little about Virginia. I grew up in Virginia, and I know that I'm from the South.
We Virginians don't consider your Texas the Real South. Now, some Texans may be Southern- esp in East Texas, but its not part of the OLD SOUTH. The Real South is Virginia, the Carolinas, TN, KY, And as far south and west as Louisiana.
But again, we're getting off topic here. This topic is not whether or not Virginia is the South (it most definitely is)
This topic is about the ambiguity of Washington, D.C.
Anyone who has been to Washington DC in the last ten years knows that it has as much southern hospitality as New Jersey. It is just like being in New York and Philly.
Anyone ever go DUCK PIN BOWLING? This is bowling with smaller pins and bowling ball. The ball fits in the hand, you sling it to knock down smaller pins. This was formed in BALTIMORE during winter months in the early 1900's. It used to be real big in Maryland. In fact, there are several duck pin bowling alley's still around. I used to bowl at the WHEATON bowling alley. In New England, they have CANDLESTICK bowling. Quite similar but the pins look more like "Candles". Where is that kind of bowling anywhere in the south?
Pennsylvanians, Delawarans, southern Jersey, NOVA and Marylanders sound alot alike the way they talk. It's middle atlantic. Washington DC is not cut and dry NORTH nor SOUTH. Alot of transplants. Seat of government there. I remember a neighbor from West Virginia, another from Virginia, another from Pennsylvania, another from Massachusetts, one even from CUBA. Depending on your parents roots is what you claim being in Maryland/DC/Baltimore. I know my neighbor from Virginia didn't include Maryland as a southern state.
Lets talk about NORFOLK VA for a second. Nothing like FLORIDA, SOUTH CAROLINA swamps. No allegators in Virginia. No palm trees in Virginia and if you see one, its planted there to look tropical. It's TIDAL water region. Lots of marsh. Hot in summer. But Norfolk can get chilly. Right by the ocean, windy and humid. Been to Norfolk. The Chesapeake tunnel that goes into CAPE CHARLES VA on the Eastern shore is a typical Maryland/Virginia tunnel thing as in Baltimore. It's unique to that region. The crab feast all up and down the Chesapeake bay is typical to that region, so Maryland and Virginia share similarities off the bay, tunnels, crabs. Norfolk is a four hour drive to DC. Go four hours north from DC and you are in Northern PA, so there is a temperature difference.
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Originally Posted by south-to-west
I think JFK said it best when he said that Washington is a city with "Northern charm and Southern efficiency."
I see this has been beaten to a dead horse. I gave you my input. From a Marylander's view, though I represent myself here, not anyone else. But from what I gather here, I see most agree Washington DC/Maryland in general leans more to the NORTH but is classified a MIDDLE ATLANTIC STATE. This is how I view it too. We also know it lies in the NORTH EAST CORRIDOR. Anything viewd less going either way would be too extreme for that region. For the record. I view Washington DC as being NOT NORTH. NOT SOUTH. UNIQUE IN ITS OWN RIGHT. MIDDLE ATLANTIC. IN THE NORTH EAST CORRIDOR. GEOGRAPHICALLY MORE TO THE NORTH. WINTERS MORE LIKE THE NORTH though not as long. (Dec Jan Feb.) SUMMERS LIKE THE SOUTH though not as long. (July Aug)
I live in SE Texas, Houston to be exact. In comparison to Virginia, yes, you may have the Civil War History, but this is definately SOUTH. West Texas is the SOUTH WEST. There is no four seasons in Houston. You have four seasons in Virginia. It gets hotter than haedes here for a long time. How is VIRGINIA being the REAL SOUTH? Look, you must be basing your argument on the CIVIL WAR. I can see you are proud of your heritage, and there is nothing wrong with that. I think one must consider GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION, WEATHER, ATTITUDES, PROXIMITY TO OTHER CITIES to consider wheather Washington DC is a Northern or Southern entity. You claim to be in the REAL SOUTH but let me tell you something too. TEXAS has a rich history and tradition. I am not from here but I can appreciate their fight for independence against SANTA ANNA at the battle of SAN JACINTO and being under 6 different flags before becoming a state once again. They were under these flags. SPAIN, MEXICO, FRANCE, TEXAS, THE CONFEDERACY and THE UNITED STATES. I don't know how well you know history, but before you place your "Confederacy" of VIRGINIA as being the "REAL" south over fellow states that SHED BLOOD in their cause, I would be very careful on your approach. Especially if you look at a Texan in the eyes and give him that line. Good luck.
I agree with what you said about DC straddling the North and South, but Virginia is unequivocally the South. NoVA may be an exception, but the rest of the state is the South through and through. And yes, the Norfolk/Tidewater area is as Southern as it gets. It's humid, surrounded by swamps, has live oaks (without the Spanish moss), and has mild winters.
Southern Maryland in St. Mary's county is pretty country bumpkin, maybe not as southern as it gets but its southern culturally. Turn around and go western MD and the major cities of WDC and BALTIMORE and you have a different scenario. So yes, I can agree that Virginia is southern especially in the SOUTHEASTERN portion. But I don't neccissarily agree that it is as SOUTH as it gets. Check out them small towns around South Carolina, Georgia, they get pretty southern down there. DEEP SOUTH. Virginia is not really in the DEEP SOUTH. I guess GEOGRAPHICALLY SPEAKING. I will agree its southern in charm, customs, afterall, its not far from NC to Norfolk.
I drove in the DELMARVA peninsula one time and when I entered Maryland, it had the billboard USA flag or UNION flag. The other way going back into Virginia, it had a billboard sign with the confederate insignia. The crossed stars. Virginia was making sure you knew you were in confederate territory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west
I agree with what you said about DC straddling the North and South, but Virginia is unequivocally the South. NoVA may be an exception, but the rest of the state is the South through and through. And yes, the Norfolk/Tidewater area is as Southern as it gets. It's humid, surrounded by swamps, has live oaks (without the Spanish moss), and has mild winters.
D.C. has always been the south. Its very busy in the streets during the day, but in the neighborhoods..its slow and the people are layed back. Its very segregated and racist also. And I work in D.C. and they have unmistakable southern accents, so do the surrounding areas in Maryland. I have yet to hear a white person from D.C. with a southern accent, but the black people do.
I grew up in Silver Spring MD, just outside of Washington DC. I'd like to point out that the DC area is not southern for the simple reasons of TERRAIN and LATITUDE. I've heard it mentioned that it gets rotten hot and muggy in summer. This is very true. It gets that way up to NYC and all along the coast to Florida. WINTERS are a different story. The GULF STREAM CURRENT cuts out around HATTERAS off the NC coast. Look at the coast line. It's JAGGED all along the Maryland and VIRGINIA coast lines, and extreme northern North Carolina. After that, its a SUBMERGED COAST LINE from the lower half of North Carolina all the way to FLORIDA. Winters in the UNSUBMERGED COASTLINES are significantly colder, probably by some ten degrees in winter. The warm Gulf Stream current doesn't have the warming effect beyond Cape Hatteras on north. It snows in DC every year and sometimes as history has proven, they get BELTED by snow by NOREASTERS. Sometimes as early as early NOVEMBER as in the VETERANS DAY STORM of 1987. If you took the latitude line across, you would hit OHIO near Cincinatti. I am using 39 degrees north Latitude, though DC center is slightly further south of 39 degrees Lat. SILVER SPRING is right smack at 39 degrees. Another point I'd like to mention is that DC sits along the banks of the POTOMAC river, in lower elevation as in surrounding suburban areas. They call DC "FOGGY BOTTOM", so you actually sink driving from MD into DC. DC is its own UNIQUE city, there are none like it in the USA. Washington DC was UNION CONTROLLED during the CIVIL WAR and remained that way through out the whole war. There were TWO northern battles fought during the Civil War. ANTIETAM and GETTYSBURG. Antietam is in Maryland, west of Washington DC. The Mason and Dixon line was not made to separate the North from the South. It was made in the 1700's to separate MD from PA royal families.
Coming from NYC, Washington DC may seem southern. Coming from ALABAMA, WDC may seem northern. Here is my version on the middle atlantic states...Lower New York and the big city is Mid Atlantic
Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia too.
North East is all the New England States and Northern New York, maybe Northern PA.
The SOUTH EAST is the CAROLINA'S on down.
Maryland is MIDDLE ATLANTIC all the way. Philadelphia, Delaware, Southern Jersey has similar climate. If you go east all the way at the 39nth parallel, you hit JERSEY. So geographically speaking, there is nothing southern about Maryland. You have Christmas trees and what I call the most beautiful forest in the USA at SLIGO WOODS. My back yard. That is the prettiest foilage in the USA and I sure miss the hell out of it. I walk here in the woods in HOUSTON where I currently live and work, and I have to watch for the snakes constantly. It's January right now and there is no foilage change of colors. No four seasons. DC has 4 distinct seasons. I never knew what GRITZ was until I went to FLORIDA.
Thats my take.
Maryland with the exclusion of western Maryland has a southern climate. We have the northernmost southern climate as a matter of fact. We also have the northernmost southern swamps along with flora and flauna.
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