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My opinion: We're a unique and fabulous combination of both North and South. The absolute best of both worlds. How cool is it that no other place in the country, on the continent, can legitimately have this debate? I love that my NY friends think I'm Southern and my GA and SC friends think I'm Northern. I love that I embody country and city girl all at once or distinctively--depending on where I am and who I'm with. I lived in New York for three (too short!) years--LOVED IT. I lived in ATL and a small town in SC combined for about 7 years. LOVED SC...ATL, aangh, not as much--but it does have its good qualities. So, after 10 years, I'm soo thrilled to have brought my new family (found my hubby and had my son in the South) back to my hometown --so they can experience creek, river, bay and ocean water; true change of seasons; city conveniences with a strong taste of country living (we live in Clinton, MD); vast education and career opportunities, culture...all the great things about this unique, lovely and complex Mid-Atlantic region.
Last edited by kjsmom17; 02-20-2010 at 10:12 AM..
Reason: clarification, grammar
My opinion: We're a unique and fabulous combination of both North and South. The absolute best of both worlds. How cool is it that no other place in the country, on the continent, can legitimately have this debate? I love that my NY friends think I'm Southern and my GA and SC friends think I'm Northern. I love that I embody country and city girl all at once or distinctively--depending on where I am and who I'm with. I lived in New York for three (too short!) years--LOVED IT. I lived in ATL and a small town in SC combined for about 7 years. LOVED SC...ATL, aangh, not as much--but it does have its good qualities. So, after 10 years, I'm soo thrilled to have brought my new family (found my hubby and had my son in the South) back to my hometown --so they can experience creek, river, bay and ocean water; true change of seasons; city conveniences with a strong taste of country living (we live in Clinton, MD); vast education and career opportunities, culture...all the great things about this unique, lovely and complex Mid-Atlantic region.
God knows Atlanta and South Carolina don't have any of those things...
Oh I love these posters who quantify DC as southern because people eat fried chicken or they saw someone with a glass of sweet tea. These are some of the most idiotic post that I have ever read!
DC is more southern than Cincinnati or St Louis? Right across the river from Cincinnatti is ****ing Kentucky? How assinine is that statement. St. Louis is way more southern than DC. For the record: DC does not have any streets or roads named after Confederate soldiers.
Banjan,
The Redskins were owned by a racist. What does that song have to do with the city? People in DC drink mint julep? WTF? My grandmother was born and raised in Brooklyn all her life and she eats grits, sweet tea, pigs feet.. etc... Go to the southside of Chicago and you will see restaurants boasting "Best Southern Food." All AA are originally from the south and still to this day have some southern culture. If you want to know what the DC accent is- Martin Lawrence and Taraji P. Henson have distinct DC accents. AA's in DC use a version of the Mid Atlantic accent. You can hear slight versions of it. Listen to Michael Vick & Allen Iverson. Also Carmelo Anthony. So, your analogy is ridiculous at best. And lastly your statement that the region lacks the defining characteristics of a northern city is crazy.
How DC is like northern cities...
Very Walkable (NYC, Boston, Philly)
Weather (NYC & Philly)
Extremely Liberal (DC votes 95% democrat in all elections/recognizes gay marriage)
Educated (Boston)
Catholic (Boston, NYC & Philly)
Diverse (NYC)
Urban (Boston, NYC & Philly)
Fast Paced (NYC & Boston)
Density (on par Boston & Philly)
Subways (Second largest Ridership in the USA)
High Cost of Living
Expensive Housing Cost (NYC & Boston)
Cosmopolitan (NYC)
High Salary & Wages (NYC & Boston)
High Public Transportation Usage (37% of the population - Second only to NYC)
Large CBD & DT workforce (Third Largest behind NYC & Chicago)
Miles and Miles of Rowhouses (Boston, Philly, Baltimore, NYC)
What southern city can claim three or four of these characterisitics??????
DC's Finest,
I think DC would seem Northern to someone from South Carolina. But it's very different from any northern city.
What do cost of living, diversity, and high wages have to do with being a culturally northern city? San Francisco is diverse and cosmopolitan. Atlanta is also diverse. Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill has a lot of educated people and high paying jobs. I don't think those things make a city a northern city. Philly, by the way, does not have many high paying jobs and does not have a high cost of living. I also don't think DC is very catholic. If anything, it seems to be pretty waspy.
If you really want to determine whether your city is a northern city or not (aside from the obvious geography), do these things:
1. Look for a street vendor on Georgia Ave, or any comparable commercial thoroughfare, selling mixtapes. First, are there any vendors selling mixtapes? No. Then you don't live in a northern city. If there are vendors selling mixtapes, is his/her collection comprised mostly of Jadakiss and Fabolous or Gucci Mane and Young Jeezy? If the latter, you don't live in a northern city.
2. Drive within the city limits for approximately one hour. Look at the white people that you see, particularly the younger ones? Are they wearing North Face or Rocawear? Are they walking their dog outside or are they sitting on their front steps/stoop drinking a beer or smoking a cigarette? Are they wearing shades on their tee-shirt or wearing a gold chain and wife beater? If the latter, you definitely live in a northern city.
3. Walk in any direction from your home for approximately one hour. Can you find any of the following items: a bodega, a hoagie, water ice (Italian or Spanish), a soft pretzel, sauer kraut, a bean pie, a cannoli? Can you find children outside playing with hockey sticks? Or kids playing stickball? If you can't find most of these things, then you don't live in a northern city.
Boston, NYC, and Philly have far more in common than climate and density. Again, I think the main thing that distinguishes these three cities from DC is a large, predominantly Catholic, working class population. Baltimore is arguably northern in this sense, but there's something undeniably strange about the city. It's just slow. Reminds me of Charleston or New Orleans in some ways.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 02-23-2010 at 10:10 PM..
It's hard to get a sense of Philly from a video, but you can clearly see how different this is from DC. And it's characteristic of what you would see in Queens or the Bronx. Take notice of the bodegas, the hard white boys, and the Jadakiss bumpin in the background.
It's hard to get a sense of Philly from a video, but you can clearly see how different this is from DC. And it's characteristic of what you would see in Queens or the Bronx. Take notice of the bodegas, the hard white boys, and the Jadakiss bumpin in the background.
I'm back and forth from DC to Brooklyn. Believe me, cats in the BK f&ck with Gucci Mane. You can get a Gucci Mane mixtape on Atlantic Ave, Smith Street or anywhere in DT BK. Do you think music just suddenly stops at the Hudson River? NYC stations play dirty south music too. What you fail to realize is that DC has it's own style. DC doesn't follow NYC or Philly. The cats in DC do there own thing. What you also fail to realize is that DC's ethnic group are AA's. So, I tend to laugh at people when they say that DC doesn't have any culture. There culture dominates the city like the Irish in Boston or the Polish in Chicago.
The list I provided you showed you the characteristics of northern cities! I proved that DC has more in common with northern cities than southern cities. Instead of arguing just look at the facts. The cultural and physical make up of DC is more like Philly/Boston than it is like Houston or Atlanta. You threw in a few other cities but they could only muster one or two characteristics. Philly may be in a down economy and the cost of living is cheap but its still more expensive to live in Philly than Atlanta or Houston. And SF is like a east coast city on the west coast! But I specifically asked you to show me some southern cities that can match up with at least four or five characteristics? You couldn't. So you based your analogy on DC not having poor white people and not selling mix tapes or having a bodega on every corner. Guess what! Boston doesn't have bodegas on every corner. No city does but NYC. And BTW, DC is very much Catholic. There are huge historic Catholic churches all over the place just like Boston.
Last edited by DC's Finest; 02-24-2010 at 08:24 AM..
I think DC would seem Northern to someone from South Carolina. But it's very different from any northern city.
What do cost of living, diversity, and high wages have to do with being a culturally northern city? San Francisco is diverse and cosmopolitan. Atlanta is also diverse. Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill has a lot of educated people and high paying jobs. I don't think those things make a city a northern city. Philly, by the way, does not have many high paying jobs and does not have a high cost of living. I also don't think DC is very catholic. If anything, it seems to be pretty waspy.
If you really want to determine whether your city is a northern city or not (aside from the obvious geography), do these things:
1. Look for a street vendor on Georgia Ave, or any comparable commercial thoroughfare, selling mixtapes. First, are there any vendors selling mixtapes? No. Then you don't live in a northern city. If there are vendors selling mixtapes, is his/her collection comprised mostly of Jadakiss and Fabolous or Gucci Mane and Young Jeezy? If the latter, you don't live in a northern city.
2. Drive within the city limits for approximately one hour. Look at the white people that you see, particularly the younger ones? Are they wearing North Face or Rocawear? Are they walking their dog outside or are they sitting on their front steps/stoop drinking a beer or smoking a cigarette? Are they wearing shades on their tee-shirt or wearing a gold chain and wife beater? If the latter, you definitely live in a northern city.
3. Walk in any direction from your home for approximately one hour. Can you find any of the following items: a bodega, a hoagie, water ice (Italian or Spanish), a soft pretzel, sauer kraut, a bean pie, a cannoli? Can you find children outside playing with hockey sticks? Or kids playing stickball? If you can't find most of these things, then you don't live in a northern city.
Boston, NYC, and Philly have far more in common than climate and density. Again, I think the main thing that distinguishes these three cities from DC is a large, predominantly Catholic, working class population. Baltimore is arguably northern in this sense, but there's something undeniably strange about the city. It's just slow. Reminds me of Charleston or New Orleans in some ways.
The thing is DC is very different from anywhere. It's probably the most unique large city in the country. However, when you do find similarities, it's almost always with North[east]ern cities.
The biggest differences between DC and the traditional cities of the NE (including B'more, Philly, NYC, Boston etc) are, as you mentioned, a diverse working class pop. and post-industrial economy. In Baltimore and Philly you have distinctly Irish, Polish, and Italian neighborhoods which you don't have in DC, there's huge factories everywhere, as well as large shipping ports. Since DC doesn't really have a large working-class population it doesn't have a distinct acccent either unlike like most NE cities, but there isn't any Southern accent either.
As for why DC's Northeastern, well I think DC's Finest hit most of the reasons in his list. Some of those might apply to some Southern cities, but the majority of them won't apply to any single city in the South.
In response to your post, DC is certainly not a WASP city, and is firmly Catholic. About 30% of residents (not just Christians, overall) are Catholic, something you definitely won't find in the South outside of maybe NO. Georgetown University (which was actually founded in MD) is the 2nd oldest Jesuit university in the nation (the oldest being Mt. St. Mary's in Maryland).
The weather is also pretty much identical to Philly's, and any variation is pretty much random. Another thing I'd like to point out is that the questions you ask are really highly subjective, while most of the things listed by DC's Finest are easily proven facts.
I'm back and forth from DC to Brooklyn. Believe me, cats in the BK f&ck with Gucci Mane. You can get a Gucci Mane mixtape on Atlantic Ave, Smith Street or anywhere in DT BK. Do you think music just suddenly stops at the Hudson River? NYC stations play dirty south music too. What you fail to realize is that DC has it's own style. DC doesn't follow NYC or Philly. The cats in DC do there own thing. What you also fail to realize is that DC's ethnic group are AA's. So, I tend to laugh at people when they say that DC doesn't have any culture. There culture dominates the city like the Irish in Boston or the Polish in Chicago.
The list I provided you showed you the characteristics of northern cities! I proved that DC has more in common with northern cities than southern cities. Instead of arguing just look at the facts. The cultural and physical make up of DC is more like Philly/Boston than it is like Houston or Atlanta. You threw in a few other cities but they could only muster one or two characteristics. Philly may be in a down economy and the cost of living is cheap but its still more expensive to live in Philly than Atlanta or Houston. And SF is like a east coast city on the west coast! But I specifically asked you to show me some southern cities that can match up with at least four or five characteristics? You couldn't. So you based your analogy on DC not having poor white people and not selling mix tapes or having a bodega on every corner. Guess what! Boston doesn't have bodegas on every corner. No city does but NYC. And BTW, DC is very much Catholic. There are huge historic Catholic churches all over the place just like Boston.
I agree with you but you say that AA's are the major ethnic group in DC, which is correct. But AA's are typically more southern in culture no matter what city. The only thing that will differ is the accent and attire for the most part. So the city itself may have a lot in common with the northeast but the culture is very southern also. Its like a 50/50 mix (Southern & NE). DC is really its own place. Very unique.
AA as in REALLY AA. as in the AA's in dc immigrated to the u.s.
its different than the rest of the AA's you'd find in the south that are there through slavery.
i agree with dc'sfinest and cpterp.
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