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Old 12-02-2008, 11:57 AM
 
Location: NY
2,007 posts, read 3,361,529 times
Reputation: 905

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I do agree with what you say about the politicians and gun issues.
How old do you have to be to get permission to carry a concealed weapon?
It varies from state to state I think.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:43 PM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,864 posts, read 7,096,377 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
You can't honestly believe these two remarks you made to be true do you?
Uh no actually if you live in a small town called Jefferson Ohio, that is true.

They DO sell guns and sporting goods at the local grocery store. It's rather funny. There's also mounted deer heads hanging on the walls.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanek9freak View Post
There's also mounted deer heads hanging on the walls.
I have a couple of deer mounts on my walls as well!
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:58 PM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,864 posts, read 7,096,377 times
Reputation: 1543
It's rather amusing that you can go to the Jefferson Golden Dawn, and buy a gallon of milk, ciggarretes, a bag of chips and an Ak-47.

I should mention that the villiage of Jefferson also permits ATV's to ride on public streets.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:25 PM
 
44,564 posts, read 43,103,689 times
Reputation: 14375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanek9freak View Post
It's rather amusing that you can go to the Jefferson Golden Dawn, and buy a gallon of milk, ciggarretes, a bag of chips and an Ak-47.

I should mention that the villiage of Jefferson also permits ATV's to ride on public streets.
What's Jefferson Golden Dawn?
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:31 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by stycotlMy point is that guns, like smoking, is bad for your health.
Thats absurd.

Quote:
Just because your health care is not like ours, where we as a nation are collectively responsible for each other's health ( at least when it comes to paying the bills) we aren't allowed to smoke in public places.
Your not allowed to smoke in public places because you dont live in a free country.

Quote:
Your problem is that unstable American citizens can easily buy a gun since I assume that gun sellers aren't allowed to ask their customer for their medical history.
Wrong! What good would asking do? Do you think unstable persons would tell the truth? What we have is an instant backround check. If a persons got serious mental issues they cant get a gun.

Quote:
Heck, I believe that gun sellers don't even wanna know the medical history of their customers, because it would make them partly responsible for the actions of their customers.
Wrong again. You have a very low opinion of other people. I think you are projecting. Rest assured that just because you cannot be counted on to do the right thing on your own most of us can. The truth is you have no idea what gun dealers think or the precautions they take.

Quote:
I guess that like the American Army they have a don't ask, don't tell mentality when it comes to selling guns because it would directly affect their income.
Actually, if they ignore the law, as you seem to think they do, it will effect their income more than by doing things by the book. If they sell a gun to a not qualified person they generally lose everything. If anything, the guys I know go above & beyond in trying to follow the letter of the law.

Quote:
Like drug pushers a gun seller doesn't want to be held (partly) responsible for the product he is selling, so they choose to be blind for the cons of owning a gun and argue that 3rd parties (like gun sellers) can't be held responsible for the action of an individual.
And maybe this is true, but gun sellers (including the government) sure are responsible for the gun problems in a nation.
More absurdity, the only one responsible for a crime is the criminal. Do you blame Volvo when you get a speeding ticket?

Quote:
Like I've posted before: Crime is not an individual problem, it is the problem of a society.
It is societies problem, but it is commited by individuals & they are the cause. Because something is societies problem does not mean its societies fault.
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
you find a way to prove that a gun is bad for my health.
Guns like cigarettes are nothing but tools, and they become a problem everytime you deny the facts so people are unable to make an informed decision.
Fact #1 is that idiots ( read: gung ho criminals and other gun owners who actually believe that having watched porn equals having actual sexual experience) using guns are dangerous to everyone's health.
Fact #2 is that whenever several people decide to enter a fire fight the chance to hit innocent people only increases so 1 can safely say that the more people draw a gun the less safe the public safety becomes.
Fact #3 is that Americans behave paranoid compared to say the Dutch people.
Maybe the Dutch would eventually behave like the Americans when they live in the US, but we don't live there.
So I guess the condition our Dutch government creates regarding gun laws has to do with why we don't feel the need to own a gun to feel safe.
And for some reason the Dutch courts are more focused on rehabilitating the criminal than punishing them.
Fact #4 it is very easy for depressed/suicidal people to buy a gun in the US.

I only find it logical that gun owners don't wanna acknowledge that using a gun is bad for the public health because they only think of their own individual health.
Heck, if a gun owners starts shooting at a criminal and in the process hits 5 innocent people by accident, whether these wounds are lethal or not is irrelevant, he'll excuse his incompetence by saying that it could have been worse: the criminal could've killed 12 people.

Every time a Dutch police officer has drawn a gun the whole situation will be examined and if the officer has jumped the gun (pun intended) he'll be severely reprimanded.
But I guess that in America this could not be the case, otherwise the whole police force would be unable to fight crime because they would be swamped in cases that have to be examined.
This is not necessarily the American police's fault but because the chance that a US criminal is using a gun is much higher than that of a Dutch criminal using a gun.
Dutch burglars for instance won't use a gun because the possession of a gun would only add severely to their prison sentence whenever they get caught, but I guess that the sentences in the US for burglary already are so harsh that using a gun wouldn't matter?


Originally Posted by Greatday
Quote:
Your medical history is not a matter of public record.
And this is the essence of the whole gun law problem, when it comes to my personal safety everyone else's medical history becomes my issue.
If the guy in front of me is mentally unstable I want to know if he is carrying a gun and if the guy in front of me is carrying a gun I need to know if he is mentally unstable (or has a record of having been mentally unstable).
For the very simple fact that I do not even try to reason with mentally unstable people who carry guns.
I just wanna get the hell outta there and let the professionals handle it.
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by NoahmaGuns like cigarettes are nothing but tools, and they become a problem everytime you deny the facts so people are unable to make an informed decision.
Fact #1 is that idiots ( read: gung ho criminals and other gun owners who actually believe that having watched porn equals having actual sexual experience) using guns are dangerous to everyone's health.
Fact #2 is that whenever several people decide to enter a fire fight the chance to hit innocent people only increases so 1 can safely say that the more people draw a gun the less safe the public safety becomes.
Fact #3 is that Americans behave paranoid compared to say the Dutch people.
Maybe the Dutch would eventually behave like the Americans when they live in the US, but we don't live there.
So I guess the condition our Dutch government creates regarding gun laws has to do with why we don't feel the need to own a gun to feel safe.
And for some reason the Dutch courts are more focused on rehabilitating the criminal than punishing them.
Fact #4 it is very easy for depressed/suicidal people to buy a gun in the US.

I only find it logical that gun owners don't wanna acknowledge that using a gun is bad for the public health because they only think of their own individual health.
Heck, if a gun owners starts shooting at a criminal and in the process hits 5 innocent people by accident, whether these wounds are lethal or not is irrelevant, he'll excuse his incompetence by saying that it could have been worse: the criminal could've killed 12 people.

Every time a Dutch police officer has drawn a gun the whole situation will be examined and if the officer has jumped the gun (pun intended) he'll be severely reprimanded.
But I guess that in America this could not be the case, otherwise the whole police force would be unable to fight crime because they would be swamped in cases that have to be examined.
This is not necessarily the American police's fault but because the chance that a US criminal is using a gun is much higher than that of a Dutch criminal using a gun.
Dutch burglars for instance won't use a gun because the possession of a gun would only add severely to their prison sentence whenever they get caught, but I guess that the sentences in the US for burglary already are so harsh that using a gun wouldn't matter?


Originally Posted by Greatday And this is the essence of the whole gun law problem, when it comes to my personal safety everyone else's medical history becomes my issue.
If the guy in front of me is mentally unstable I want to know if he is carrying a gun and if the guy in front of me is carrying a gun I need to know if he is mentally unstable (or has a record of having been mentally unstable).
For the very simple fact that I do not even try to reason with mentally unstable people who carry guns.
I just wanna get the hell outta there and let the professionals handle it.
more blabble and no cold hard presentable facts. Stycotl posted a very good post earlier, how about you try to respond to his post now with provable, well studied facts.
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:47 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
Stycotl posted a very good post earlier, how about you try to respond to his post now with provable, well studied facts.
And ignore common sense?
I don't need 'studied facts' to know if a circle is round.
I can figure that out all by myself.
I guess this is where I differ from most (American?) people; I value my own experiences over studied facts done by others.
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Noahma And ignore common sense?
I don't need 'studied facts' to know if a circle is round.
I can figure that out all by myself.
I guess this is where I differ from most (American?) people; I value my own experiences over studied facts done by others.
common "facts" can, and have been shown wrong. It was common fact back in history that the world was Flat, it was common fact once upon a time that witches ate young kids. And What has been thought of as common fact that restricting gun ownership would lower crime has been shown to be FALSE, by scientific studies. Now you going to answer stycotl's question now?
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