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We all have choices whether to do something or not. I can choose to rob a bank or I can choose not to.
Since an illegal alien has the choice of crossing our border illegally or not coming at all then they have to abide by our immigration laws which is to not come at all.
But he does not have the option of legally immigrating. So it is illegal or not at all. And that is really his only route to legal american residency.
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I think most Americans are for voluntary deportation by removing all incentives to remain here. However, until that happens we have to deport them as we find them. Amnesty would be the worst choice we could make because it will only encourage more to come here in larger numbers than we are getting now and we would end up legalizing millions of low wage earners who will be welfare dependant. We need the jobs they are holding also.
Dream on. Something close to half of the illegals have gone to the grey economy...That increases the cost without the benefit of tax collection. Cut down harder on employment and you increase the gray market. If you try and chase them down you have a couple of million americans who you depart with them...who will almost all come back eventually. Note these people have an excellent support system that makes them very resistant to deportation and very difficult to find. It would cost billions and billions and even then would likely not work very well. And in generally Mexican immigrants make few demands on welfare.
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Arizona still has a half million illegal aliens whether entry is down or not. That is unacceptable.
Substantially less than my own Nevada on a per capita basis. Yet illegal immigration is not a big issue in Nevada and is unlikly to be. So again why is Arizona different?
But he does not have the option of legally immigrating. So it is illegal or not at all. And that is really his only route to legal american residency.
Dream on. Something close to half of the illegals have gone to the grey economy...That increases the cost without the benefit of tax collection. Cut down harder on employment and you increase the gray market. If you try and chase them down you have a couple of million americans who you depart with them...who will almost all come back eventually. Note these people have an excellent support system that makes them very resistant to deportation and very difficult to find. It would cost billions and billions and even then would likely not work very well. And in generally Mexican immigrants make few demands on welfare.
Substantially less than my own Nevada on a per capita basis. Yet illegal immigration is not a big issue in Nevada and is unlikly to be. So again why is Arizona different?
In answer to your first remark...TOUGH. If you are unable to come legally then you CAN'T come, plain and simple.
Mexicans and other illegals do put demands on our welfare coffers for their anchor children and they would continue to do so as I said because they are low wage earners with many dependants. They virtually pay no income taxes now and as low waged legalized immigrants or citizens that wouldn't change. If they become citizens they would be able to sponsor their extended families into our country also.
The solution is to put the military on the border and secure it as much as possible from new entries. The solution to getting rid of those here is to implement laws like sb1070 nationwide and to take away any incentives to remain here such as changing birthright citizenship, mandating e-verify across the nation and denying them an education, welfare and only emergency healthcare. With these plans we will cut down illegal immigation both internally and at our borders down to a trickle within a few short years.
Nevada has a huge illegal alien problem. In Nevada however you have all those casino owners advocating for their cheap labor and you have the idiot, Harry Reid who is in their back pockets.
You continue on with your defeatist attitude that seems to be supported by a personal agenda. The rest of us Americans will plod on and fight this invasion and those who are using it to destroy our country.
Last edited by chicagonut; 09-10-2010 at 06:07 PM..
In answer to your first remark...TOUGH. If you are unable to come legally then you CAN'T come, plain and simple.
The illegals and their apologist supporters can't connect the dots on that one for some reason - yet they fail to see any deficiency in their reasoning.........
All they KEEP wailing is "If we can't come legally then we HAVE to come illegally"
In answer to your first remark...TOUGH. If you are unable to come legally then you CAN'T come, plain and simple.
YOu realize how absurd that statement is? There are some 10 million or more people who obviously did not agree with you. And I will give you an opinion that most of them will end up staying...
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Mexicans and other illegals do put demands on our welfare coffers for their anchor children and they would continue to do so as I said because they are low wage earners with many dependants. They virtually pay no income taxes now and as low waged legalized immigrants or citizens that wouldn't change. If they become citizens they would be able to sponsor their extended families into our country also.
Children born in the US are Americans. Get over the bias. The children whose parents are poor get to use certain welfare facilities. And in no case of which I am aware are they the majority user of the facility. The children of poor Americans are the majority.
The only actually really interesting cost is that of medical...where we in our wisdom maximize the cost by forcing it through the ER.
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The solution is to put the military on the border and secure it as much as possible from new entries. The solution to getting rid of those here is to implement laws like sb1070 nationwide and to take away any incentives to remain here such as changing birthright citizenship, mandating e-verify across the nation and denying them an education, welfare and only emergency healthcare. With these plans we will cut down illegal immigation both internally and at our borders down to a trickle within a few short years.
We don't use the military on the border for cause. It is not legal...and you guys value legal a lot don't you?
It is also dumb. The US military is an aggresive army that kills enemies. It is reasonably clear there are no enemies on the southern border...they are all trying to cross over and sign up.
But you can hire thousand and thousands of border guards...increase the size of the federal government by 5 or 10% and man the border fully. Probably stop most though not all of the entries. And then in 5 years you got 100,000 border guards with no one crossing. What are you going to do with the border guards? TSA expanded 20 fold...and some of you want to limit the size of government.
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Nevada has a huge illegal alien problem. In Nevada however you have all those casino owners advocating for their cheap labor and you have the idiot, Harry Reid who is in their back pockets.
Who dat? You think the union would not notice if the Venetian hired illegals? You think the Sands would not notice if Harrahs hired illegals?
You are more than a little nuts. The entire town is landscaped and cleaned by the illegals...but not on the strip.
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You continue on with your defeatist attitude that seems to be supported by a personal agenda. The rest of us Americans will plod on and fight this invasion and those who are using it to to destroy our country.
Actulally you better hope that those of us who understand the issue work something out.
My projection has always been that we wil not. And the illegal invasion continues until the 2020s when the Mexican demographic involved is exhausted.
One way to stop the influx is to have all those eligible to come already here.
YOu realize how absurd that statement is? There are some 10 million or more people who obviously did not agree with you. And I will give you an opinion that most of them will end up staying...
Children born in the US are Americans. Get over the bias. The children whose parents are poor get to use certain welfare facilities. And in no case of which I am aware are they the majority user of the facility. The children of poor Americans are the majority.
The only actually really interesting cost is that of medical...where we in our wisdom maximize the cost by forcing it through the ER.
We don't use the military on the border for cause. It is not legal...and you guys value legal a lot don't you?
It is also dumb. The US military is an aggresive army that kills enemies. It is reasonably clear there are no enemies on the southern border...they are all trying to cross over and sign up.
But you can hire thousand and thousands of border guards...increase the size of the federal government by 5 or 10% and man the border fully. Probably stop most though not all of the entries. And then in 5 years you got 100,000 border guards with no one crossing. What are you going to do with the border guards? TSA expanded 20 fold...and some of you want to limit the size of government.
Who dat? You think the union would not notice if the Venetian hired illegals? You think the Sands would not notice if Harrahs hired illegals?
You are more than a little nuts. The entire town is landscaped and cleaned by the illegals...but not on the strip.
Actulally you better hope that those of us who understand the issue work something out.
My projection has always been that we wil not. And the illegal invasion continues until the 2020s when the Mexican demographic involved is exhausted.
One way to stop the influx is to have all those eligible to come already here.
What I meant (and I sure you knew that) is that you can't come illegally "according to our laws". Your opinon would be wrong that they will be staying based on the plan that I outlayed for you.
My objection to illegal aliens giving birth on our soil and them being granted instant citizenship and thereby sucking up our taxpayer benefits is not bias against those kids. It is bias against their parents who gamed our system in that manner. If they weren't here they wouldn't have given birth to an instant citizen and we wouldn't have that added burden.
Please post a link where it is illegal for our military to protect our borders against an invasion. There are no enemies at our border? Do you know how many people from known terrorist countries have slipped through our borders along with criminals, drug carriers and those who just have no right to enter our border illegally for any reason?
I think our government knows how to secure our borders now and how to keep them secure in the future. You are grasping at straws creating "what if" scenarios about the future. You don't think that there are enough brains in our government that know what needs to be done now and in the future and how to best utilize those resources as situations arrive?
I know all about Vegas and the number of illegals those casinos hire. You can call me nuts and a liar if you want to but I know better. They hold many jobs in Vegas and all over Nevada.
"One way to stop the influx is to have all those eligible to come already here"
What would make them eligible? Wouldn't it require that we have jobs for them without taking a job from an American? We have millions of Americans out of work right now so how many more would be eligible based on our ability to provide jobs for them? Would eligibility also include other than Mexicans? Do you actually think there aren't potential immigrants waiting all over the world to become "eligible"? How fair is it to just favor Mexicans? What about our population growth and ability to provide for their social needs? Schools, heathcare, etc. You aren't dealing in reality if you think those deemed "eligible" would put a stop to illegal immigration because there are millions more that wouldn't be deemed eligible and then THEY would start coming illegally. There would be no end to this cycle of uncontrolled immigration.
Why are you so concerned about illegal foreingers and their needs but you don't seem to care at all about the rights and needs of your average American?
I am not going to keep this useless conversation going anymore. Your priorities are obviously different than mine and most Americans.
True. I would like to put the problem to bed. You would not.
I am glad to see you run. Standard behavior among those who want to milk the problem rather than solve it.
Good night.
I have offered solutions to the problem. You just don't like them because you obviously have an anti-laws, pro-illegal agenda. I am not running. We just have exhausted any meaningful debate over this. Good Bye.
YOu realize how absurd that statement is? There are some 10 million or more people who obviously did not agree with you. And I will give you an opinion that most of them will end up staying...
[The difference is they aren't citizens of the US.]
Children born in the US are Americans. Get over the bias. The children whose parents are poor get to use certain welfare facilities. And in no case of which I am aware are they the majority user of the facility. The children of poor Americans are the majority.
[They may not use the majority of the facility but they don't have the right to use ANY of it.]
The only actually really interesting cost is that of medical...where we in our wisdom maximize the cost by forcing it through the ER.
[Do you know any CITIZENS that get to use the ER for their personal physician? We have to pay when we get sick! Will they still be using the ER now that all citizens will be REQUIRED to have health insurance? ]
We don't use the military on the border for cause. It is not legal...and you guys value legal a lot don't you?
It is also dumb. The US military is an aggresive army that kills enemies. It is reasonably clear there are no enemies on the southern border...they are all trying to cross over and sign up.
[Well with the rules of engagement we were operating under in Iraq and Afghanistan that would be debatable. And you may find it interesting that it's not just Hispanics that are crossing over.]
But you can hire thousand and thousands of border guards...increase the size of the federal government by 5 or 10% and man the border fully. Probably stop most though not all of the entries. And then in 5 years you got 100,000 border guards with no one crossing. What are you going to do with the border guards? TSA expanded 20 fold...and some of you want to limit the size of government.
[You are correct. We have all these TSA workers at the airports now and all someone has to do is walk across the border. Does that make sense to you somehow? And your figure of 100,000 border patrol agents is a figment of your imagination, but wouldn't it stand to reason that we would be better off using military so that is not an issue? Obama is weeding the military down to nothing so I guess if he can do that we could do the same with TSA and border patrol. ]
Who dat? You think the union would not notice if the Venetian hired illegals? You think the Sands would not notice if Harrahs hired illegals?
You are more than a little nuts. The entire town is landscaped and cleaned by the illegals...but not on the strip.
[And I suppose Nevada has a 4% unemployment rate so there are no CITIZENS there that need jobs?]
Actulally you better hope that those of us who understand the issue work something out.
[Yes, it sounds like you know a heck of a lot more about than any one else. What qualifies you to know more about this issue than any other poster on this board?]
My projection has always been that we wil not. And the illegal invasion continues until the 2020s when the Mexican demographic involved is exhausted.
[I thought you just suggested that you have the answers.]
One way to stop the influx is to have all those eligible to come already here.
[That's a real slap in the face to all those that have come in the legal way. Maybe you could just post your address so they could come and stay with you and do your landscaping. You can feed them, and pay for their education and healthcare. Hope you have a big house to go along with your big ideas and your big heart.]
Last edited by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?; 09-10-2010 at 09:26 PM..
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is this an opinion piece or do you have some type of poll to back it up ?
living in Texas, Id everything you just ranted about is wrong.
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Originally Posted by The Outcast
The media and various liberal groups have done a great job at confusing the public about immigration. Basically everyone who is new to this country who was not born in America is called an immmigrant. If you are against illegal aliens invading our country you are called anti immigrant. People who support illegal immigration just called them undocumented and say they just came for a better life. We are constantly reminded that we are all immigrants unless we are 100% Indian.
I also find that most Americans do not understand the process one goes through to become a legal immigrant. They tell me that the current "undocumented" should just simply report to the US Embassy and get the necessary papers and they will magically become legal. (They think becoming an American is cheap and easy and nearly everyone can do so easily, just fill out a few forms!)
What would the average American think about immigration if they really knew all the facts and were able to review the issue with intellectual vigor?
[The difference is they aren't citizens of the US.]
They are however the ones who get to vote with their feet.
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[They may not use the majority of the facility but they don't have the right to use ANY of it.]
Now you want to deny American children the use of facilities because you don't care for their parents?
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[Do you know any CITIZENS that get to use the ER for their personal physician? We have to pay when we get sick! Will they still be using the ER now that all citizens will be REQUIRED to have health insurance? ]
Poor Americans whether legal or illegal use the ER as their personal physician. The Health Care Act may remove poor other than illegals from the ER. It will not effect illegals who are not covered.
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[Well with the rules of engagement we were operating under in Iraq and Afghanistan that would be debatable. And you may find it interesting that it's not just Hispanics that are crossing over.]
The vast number of known terrorist came in on commercial air liners.
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[You are correct. We have all these TSA workers at the airports now and all someone has to do is walk across the border. Does that make sense to you somehow? And your figure of 100,000 border patrol agents is a figment of your imagination, but wouldn't it stand to reason that we would be better off using military so that is not an issue? Obama is weeding the military down to nothing so I guess if he can do that we could do the same with TSA and border patrol. ]
The TSA people are a total waste as well. The tactic used on 9/11 never works again and should never have worked in the first place. We are basically screwing up our air transport system for no purpose other than making it look good.
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[And I suppose Nevada has a 4% unemployment rate so there are no CITIZENS there that need jobs?]
Actually the hardest hit segment was the hispanic one where unemployment for legals and illegal likely exceeds 20 or 25%. And that has its good side as the illegals have left in droves. Here is a place where fixing the illegal alien problem would likely do a lot of good. Is it not a shame that we are unwilling to do so.
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[Yes, it sounds like you know a heck of a lot more about than any one else. What qualifies you to know more about this issue than any other poster on this board?]
YOu always use that attack when you are losing the argument?
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[I thought you just suggested that you have the answers.]
I not only have no answer I opine that it will not be fixed and will continue to fester for years yet.
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[That's a real slap in the face to all those that have come in the legal way. Maybe you could just post your address so they could come and stay with you and do your landscaping. You can feed them, and pay for their education and healthcare. Hope you have a big house to go along with your big ideas and your big heart.]
And again as soon as you are forced to face reality you attack the messenger. None of us get to dictate a solution. It should have been put to bed 20 years ago. That failure has a price.
Simplistic solutions go no where and simply provide slogans for those who want to wish the problem away.
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