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Old 06-25-2011, 08:19 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,561 times
Reputation: 21

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Honestly, these state laws, if they weren't smothered in the cradle by the ACLU/ConAgra/progressive/identity politics crew, are a wonderful laboratory for most of the illegal alien issue.

If a state makes it too uncomfortable for illegals to stay there, well, they'll move on. If they were a huge net gain to that state, it should become obvious. If, however, that state seems better off, everyone will notice. Since the aliens will mostly move to some other state, their new home receives the brunt of the benefit/sacrifice. Over time, you'd see a kind of feedback loop that would pick up speed as either the high cost or the high gain of alien removal becomes obvious.

Everyone can wave their hands all they like, but the real proof of the pudding is the fiscal health and crime rates of a place with a large outflow of illegal and mostly poor foreign nationals. The added mass of people is always bad news from an environmental standpoint, but a least you get a lab showing the effects from a social one.

 
Old 06-25-2011, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swedgin View Post
...US legal citizens...
I've never really understood why I often see the term "U.S. citizens" with an additional identifier of "legal" here. A citizen is "legal" anyway, and doesn't need the further identifier. Unless there are some identified as "illegal citizens".
 
Old 06-25-2011, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,870,497 times
Reputation: 27519
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I've never really understood why I often see the term "U.S. citizens" with an additional identifier of "legal" here. A citizen is "legal" anyway, and doesn't need the further identifier. Unless there are some identified as "illegal citizens".
It has come to this. They have rights and privileges here in the US as well.
They are guaranteed education for their children. They can apply for certain government social programs that do not require proof of citizenship.

So yes, we have legal citizens with rights and now we have illegal citizens with rights.

We, the people, allowed this to happen.
 
Old 06-25-2011, 08:27 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
Define an illegal citizen please.
 
Old 06-25-2011, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
It has come to this. They have rights and privileges here in the US as well.
They are guaranteed education for their children. They can apply for certain government social programs that do not require proof of citizenship.

So yes, we have legal citizens with rights and now we have illegal citizens with rights.

We, the people, allowed this to happen.
And just who is illegal, and who is legal?...
 
Old 06-25-2011, 08:38 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,561 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Define an illegal citizen please.
An illegal alien who, via some magic of political clout, false ID, and stealth, can't be made to leave the country. 'Citizen' implies permanence in this sense.

As for the concept that the citizens (this time I mean the real-deal) of Georgia forcing out the illegals because of bad times, remember that the wealth gradient that is causing them to flow in is the key, especially in a world which lacks the political will to enforce national borders. The trick at this point is mostly to force them into a neighboring state.

Let's say that you view current economic conditions as a combination of a short term business cycle combined with long term resource depletion+overpopulation, the third world will be hit by that second problem to a greater extent than the first. If your first world country is unfortunate enough to have close physical proximity to a place rich in bodies but poor in stuff, the pressure will be immense.

Expect more of this worldwide over time. It'll take a while, and the pattern won't be obvious until it has occurred for a bit, but I think you can fully expect the West to radically toughen up (both physically and mentally) against the poor nations .or. to be essentially overrun by them. Too many people, not enough stuff, combined with worldwide media and ease of movement. Lotsa bad possibilities there.
 
Old 06-25-2011, 09:22 AM
 
118 posts, read 80,129 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So kids would really have a better life without the nurturing and presence of their fathers or mothers? Nothing can replace that.
If they have access to better resources it certainly gives them a better chance at life.

Also, it doesn't have to be their natural parents they receive nurturing from, just parental figures. This is why many kids that are adopted turn out well nurtured.
 
Old 06-25-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRavenSpeaks View Post
An illegal alien who, via some magic of political clout, false ID, and stealth, can't be made to leave the country. 'Citizen' implies permanence in this sense.

As for the concept that the citizens (this time I mean the real-deal) of Georgia forcing out the illegals because of bad times, remember that the wealth gradient that is causing them to flow in is the key, especially in a world which lacks the political will to enforce national borders. The trick at this point is mostly to force them into a neighboring state.

Let's say that you view current economic conditions as a combination of a short term business cycle combined with long term resource depletion+overpopulation, the third world will be hit by that second problem to a greater extent than the first. If your first world country is unfortunate enough to have close physical proximity to a place rich in bodies but poor in stuff, the pressure will be immense.

Expect more of this worldwide over time. It'll take a while, and the pattern won't be obvious until it has occurred for a bit, but I think you can fully expect the West to radically toughen up (both physically and mentally) against the poor nations .or. to be essentially overrun by them. Too many people, not enough stuff, combined with worldwide media and ease of movement. Lotsa bad possibilities there.
Ok, you're not getting that Merriam-Webster job I heard was available...
 
Old 06-25-2011, 09:26 AM
 
36 posts, read 14,559 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So kids would really have a better life without the nurturing and presence of their fathers or mothers? Nothing can replace that.
Easy to say for someone who has never lived in abject poverty.
 
Old 06-25-2011, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elián González View Post
If they have access to better resources it certainly gives them a better chance at life...
And tends to make them into fire-breathing activists for the experience of separation...
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