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Old 09-06-2008, 11:45 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,057,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
Okay. That wasn't the point though. The point was that it would tax our social services more and has the potential to breed more crime and poverty as the result of a sharp increase in broken families.
Imho the foster care system in this country needs to be shaken up. People use and abuse the system with the result of children being raised in poverty with no real home to call their own.
How would I fix this in regards to anchors? If the parents choose to abandon their children, then the children go up for adoption. Legal relatives want to care for the children? Then they can adopt them, and no longer be paid by the state to 'care for them'.
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:49 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,057,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
Okay so maybe instead of offering tax breaks, just lower tariffs for businesses that operate in Mexico than Asia? And still offer substantial tax breaks to companies who keep their plants here in the states. Wouldn't that help improve Mexico's economy and still help ours as well?

The point is, we think we cannot afford to help Mexico because we need to help ourselves. But if we don't help Mexico's economy, at least a little bit more, won't that cost us more money in the long run? We'll need to spend more money on border patrol, people will still be coming across, and it won't stop until they have opportunities where they're at. Doesn't that make sense?
You are operating under the ideal that the us can fix mexico. We could pump money, resources, and knowledge into that country for fifty years and nothing will change.....because the mexican ruling class doesn't want it to change and the mexican under class is too afraid of forcing the change.
You are also assuming that the us has a moral obligation to try this....no we do not. Mexico sucks for the poor, but it is no darfur. Nor is it a north korea. Nor is it cambodia.
Finally, the last and most erroneous assumption you make is that the us has unlimited money and resources. We do not. The time is coming when things are going to get very tight for the majority of us, we cannot rescue mexico when we ourselves maybe drowning. No matter how 'good' that may make us feel in the short term.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:07 PM
 
Location: US
3,082 posts, read 3,348,838 times
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Ludachris - take a look at the table attached. Mexico does not put a priority on bringing business into its country. On a scale of 1 - 178, Mexico is 134 in employing workers, while the United States is #1. See Mexico's other rankings.

Rankings - Doing Business - The World Bank Group (http://www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/ - broken link)

Malamute said it wonderfully--employers are taking advantage of the situation by maximizing profits while socializing costs. In the meantime, Mexico wants to send us their unemployed while keeping the best for themselves.

Every country has their poor. We can't cast out our own poor, but we sure don't have to take on another country's poor just because they don't want to help them. We have created an entitlement mentality. I personally have had enough of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
I agree with the point that if we force US companies to hire US citizens, it would likely make a big impact. But it would also just generate more creativity to circumvent the system too. So I don't see that completely ending the encentive to cross illegally. Though it would slow it a bit.

Think of it this way - we have thousands of poor neighborhoods in our country. The crime rates in poor areas are much higher than in wealthier areas. Do we just put a wall up to keep the poor out of the wealthy areas? Or do we put programs in place to create opportunities where there were few or none? Doesn't that tend to have a bigger affect?

I know Mexico is not our responsibility, but wouldn't it be in our best interest to do something to help their economy so that their poor wouldn't have to keep crossing the border to work? Maybe offer tax breaks for companies who choose to outsource to Mexico instead of China or India? That's of course, after we offer larger tax breaks for companies to keep their plants in the US. Companies are going to outsource. Why not give them an incentive to help a neighboring company instead of one on the other side of the globe if it means fewer illegal immigrants. That, combined with stiffer border enforcement and harsh penalties for businesses in the US hiring them seems to be pretty logical.

I just don't think the a big wall and more guns is going to deter as many illegals as some think. And I think even punishing businesses for hiring them will not be enough. I think the root of the problem is the lack of opportunity in their own country that will keep them coming more than anything. Even if we decrease the opportunities for them here there will still likely be more than if they stayed where they are. And they'll likely take more risk to get across.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:11 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,721,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
You are operating under the ideal that the us can fix mexico. We could pump money, resources, and knowledge into that country for fifty years and nothing will change.....because the mexican ruling class doesn't want it to change and the mexican under class is too afraid of forcing the change.
You are also assuming that the us has a moral obligation to try this....no we do not. Mexico sucks for the poor, but it is no darfur. Nor is it a north korea. Nor is it cambodia.
Finally, the last and most erroneous assumption you make is that the us has unlimited money and resources. We do not. The time is coming when things are going to get very tight for the majority of us, we cannot rescue mexico when we ourselves maybe drowning. No matter how 'good' that may make us feel in the short term.
Good points. Also, we have been pumping money, resources and knowledge into Mexico for the past 50 years. We don't have much to show for it. At this point, we are doing little more than serving as an 'enabler' for Mexico's dysfunctional behavior. It is long past time for Mexico to put on their big boy's underwear and grow up. We cannot do that for them nor should we.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:11 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,922 posts, read 7,639,288 times
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Where does compassion come into the argument about illegal immigration? If it was about assylum or political refugee's then compassion may be an argument. Anyone who thinks that they can sneek into a country,ignore all border controls and then shout "compassion" will only lead to a complete breakdown in any kind of border control. Is the criteria now that if you manage to evade the law you get residency, then why should ANYONE bother going through the proper chanels. My wife is American and i'm a Brit. I stood in line, payed my dues and applied to be legally accepted into America. Doesn't mean that i'm anything special but i believe in respecting America's laws. If you are ILLEGAL, you should expect nothing less than to be deported if you get caught. "Sob stories" isn't on the application form.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Then that would be the parents choice, not the us government 'tearing families apart'.
If the parents were faced with deportation and they elected to leave their Anchor babies here-------------of course it would be said parents 'tearing families apart' (emoticon directed to those posters what implicitly want the illegal immigrants to stay here in the USA)
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:52 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,922 posts, read 7,639,288 times
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Do Illegal Immigrants NOT realise that if they have a baby/babies in America that they will have this problem when deported? There is no excuse. To say that families will be ripped apart is dumb. The children will go to wherever the parents go, no split needed.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,848,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
If the parents were faced with deportation and they elected to leave their Anchor babies here-------------of course it would be said parents 'tearing families apart' (emoticon directed to those posters what implicitly want the illegal immigrants to stay here in the USA)
As a mother, there is no way I would leave my child. Of course, I didnít give birth to him for personal gain, as so many do.
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Old 09-06-2008, 01:00 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,012,490 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
Where does compassion come into the argument about illegal immigration? If it was about assylum or political refugee's then compassion may be an argument. Anyone who thinks that they can sneek into a country,ignore all border controls and then shout "compassion" will only lead to a complete breakdown in any kind of border control. Is the criteria now that if you manage to evade the law you get residency, then why should ANYONE bother going through the proper chanels. My wife is American and i'm a Brit. I stood in line, payed my dues and applied to be legally accepted into America. Doesn't mean that i'm anything special but i believe in respecting America's laws. If you are ILLEGAL, you should expect nothing less than to be deported if you get caught. "Sob stories" isn't on the application form.
What is the cost to come here legally? Just curious.
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Old 09-06-2008, 01:04 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,915,896 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
As a mother, there is no way I would leave my child. Of course, I didnít give birth to him for personal gain, as so many do.
Therein lies the difference. What I find most hypocritical about this situation is that it is a known fact that many of them have no problem leaving wives and children back in Mexico. Most of the aforementioned come here with the deliberate intent to give birth, shack up and in some cases marry without divorcing the spouse they left behind, l in order to avoid deportation by claiming they are rooted in the community. There is nothing lower than using your own children as a source of income or as an anchor to garner sympathy against deportation.

IMHO, it doesn't get any lower or more disgusting than that.
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