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Old 08-10-2015, 09:58 AM
 
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"And We have not sent you but as a mercy to all the worlds." (Quran 21:107)

Nope, this is not a positive for disbelievers. And just a few verses before we see this:
"Lo! ye (idolaters) and that which ye worship beside Allah are fuel of hell. Thereunto ye will come." 21:98

Let me remind you that you are looking for verses that are positive towards disbelievers.

Sorry, no hadith allowed. You have said many times that hadith are not reliable. Quran only. I thought about using hadith but knew every verse I posted from one would be challenged.

"And dispute you not with the People of the Scripture, except in the best way, unless it be with those who do wrong, but say, ‘We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God and your God is One; and it is to Him we submit (in Islam).’" (Quran 21:46)

So, not considered disbelievers.

"Do not revile those whom they call upon besides God, lest they revile God out of spite in their ignorance. Thus, We have made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord and He shall then tell them the truth of what they did." (Quran 6:108)

Well, no. Context:
6:109 - 113
They swear their strongest oaths by Allah, that if a (special) sign came to them, by it they would believe. Say: "Certainly (all) signs are in the power of Allah: but what will make you (Muslims) realise that (even) if (special) signs came, they will not believe."?And We shall turn their hearts and their eyes away (from guidance), as they refused to believe therein for the first time, and We shall leave them in their trespass to wander blindly. Even if We did send unto them angels, and the dead did speak unto them, and We gathered together all things before their very eyes, they are not the ones to believe, unless it is in Allah's plan. But most of them ignore (the truth). Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone. (And this is in order) that the hearts of those who disbelieve in the Hereafter may incline to such (deceit), and that they may remain pleased with it, and that they may commit what they are committing (all kinds of sins and evil deeds, etc.)."

Very Interesting!! Here allah admits that he controls if people believe or not!! This is just what I have been saying! People who really do believe in allah should take note of this. Anyways, this is not positive towards disbelievers.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands clear from error: whoever rejects false gods and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things." (Quran 2:256)

Certainly not positive towards disbelievers. Also,
2:254 O ye who believe! spend of that wherewith We have provided you ere a day come when there will be no trafficking, nor friendship, nor intercession. The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers.
2:257 Allah is the Wali (Protector or Guardian) of those who believe. He brings them out from darkness into light. But as for those who disbelieve, their Auliya (supporters and helpers) are Taghut [false deities and false leaders, etc.], they bring them out from light into darkness. Those are the dwellers of the Fire, and they will abide therein forever.

"Indeed, Allah commands you to render trusts to whom they are due, and when you judge between people, to judge with justice. Excellent is that which Allah instructs you. Indeed, Allah is ever Hearing and Seeing." (Quran 4:58)

OK, seriously, you need to read the surrounding verses.

4:51 - 57 Have you not seen those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They believe in idols and false deities and say of those who disbelieve: These are better guided in the path than those who believe. They are (men) whom Allah hath cursed: And those whom Allah Hath cursed, thou wilt find, have no one to help. Or have they even a share in the Sovereignty? Then in that case, they would not give mankind even the speck on a date-stone. Or are they jealous of mankind because of that which Allah of His bounty hath bestowed upon them? For We bestowed upon the house of Abraham (of old) the Scripture and wisdom, and We bestowed on them a mighty kingdom. Of them were (some) who believed in him (Muhammad SAW), and of them were (some) who averted their faces from him (Muhammad SAW); and enough is Hell for burning (them). Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment. Truly, Allah is Ever Most Powerful, All-Wise. But those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism) and do deeds of righteousness, We shall admit them to Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), abiding therein forever. Therein they shall have Azwajun Mutahharatun [purified mates or wives (having no menses, stools, urine, etc.)] and We shall admit them to shades wide and ever deepening (Paradise).

If you are not questioning your assertion that the Quran is not full of hate towards disbelievers, I don't know what!

"…and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just." (Quran 5:8)

Here we go again!
5:9 - 10 Allah has promised to those who believe and do good deeds (that) they shall have forgiveness and a mighty reward.
They who disbelieve and deny our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) are those who will be the dwellers of the Hell-fire."


And again!

"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God (the Quran). Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know." (Quran 9:6)

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Convert of be slaughtered. Not exactly a positive.
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
-----SNIP---
And again!

"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God (the Quran). Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know." (Quran 9:6)

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Convert of be slaughtered. Not exactly a positive.
Notice carefully 9:6 comes AFTER 9:5

In a recitation it is heard as

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God (the Quran). Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:02 PM
 
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"Then, when the sacred months have passed (this shows the Muslims are the aggressors - they are not being attacked) , slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God (the Quran). Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know"

If they submit to allah, don't slaughter them. The hate goes on:

How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing. They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors. But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know. And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease. Will you not fight a people who breached their oaths and designed to drive out the Messenger, and it was they who began the first time against you? Are you apprehensive of them? Then Allah truly has more right (on you) to be apprehensive of Him in case you are believers.. Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers. Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people. And remove the fury in the believers' hearts. And Allah turns in forgiveness to whom He wills; and Allah is Knowing and Wise. Do you think that you will be left [as you are] while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive [for His cause] and do not take other than Allah , His Messenger and the believers as intimates? And Allah is Acquainted with what you do. It is not for the polytheists to maintain the mosques of Allah [while] witnessing against themselves with disbelief. [For] those, their deeds have become worthless, and in the Fire they will abide eternally.

The hate goes on after this. The ironic thing is that it is muhammed/allah who says muhammed/allah can break his own oaths and scheme.

By Allah, and Allah willing, if I take an oath and later find something else better than that. then I do what is better and expiate my oath.' "
Sahih Bukhari 7:67:427

He who took an oath and then found another thing better than (this) should expiate for the oath (broken) by him and do (the better thing).
Sahih Muslim 15:4053

" And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."
Quran 3:54

(I don't quite know why the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE is interested in a scheming match with us mere mortals.)
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Then, when the sacred months have passed (this shows the Muslims are the aggressors - they are not being attacked) , slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God (the Quran). Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know"

If they submit to allah, don't slaughter them. The hate goes on:

How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient. They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing. They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors. But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know. And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease. Will you not fight a people who breached their oaths and designed to drive out the Messenger, and it was they who began the first time against you? Are you apprehensive of them? Then Allah truly has more right (on you) to be apprehensive of Him in case you are believers.. Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers. Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people. And remove the fury in the believers' hearts. And Allah turns in forgiveness to whom He wills; and Allah is Knowing and Wise. Do you think that you will be left [as you are] while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive [for His cause] and do not take other than Allah , His Messenger and the believers as intimates? And Allah is Acquainted with what you do. It is not for the polytheists to maintain the mosques of Allah [while] witnessing against themselves with disbelief. [For] those, their deeds have become worthless, and in the Fire they will abide eternally.

The hate goes on after this. The ironic thing is that it is muhammed/allah who says muhammed/allah can break his own oaths and scheme.

By Allah, and Allah willing, if I take an oath and later find something else better than that. then I do what is better and expiate my oath.' "
Sahih Bukhari 7:67:427

He who took an oath and then found another thing better than (this) should expiate for the oath (broken) by him and do (the better thing).
Sahih Muslim 15:4053

" And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."
Quran 3:54

(I don't quite know why the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE is interested in a scheming match with us mere mortals.)
It is Pickthall's Victorian era English that first used the translation of Schemer.

Schemer in the 1800s had a bit different connotation it has today.

Scheme did not appear in the english language until 1595 and carried the concept of plan or design.
Origin of SCHEME
Latin schemat-, schema arrangement, figure, from Greek schēmat-, schēma, from echein to have, hold, be in (such) a condition; akin to Old English sige victory, Sanskrit sahate he prevails
First Known Use: circa 1595
Scheme | Definition of scheme by Merriam-Webster


A better translation is Plan and planner in today's English

3:54 (Y. Ali) And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

3:54 (Picktall) And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.
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Old 08-11-2015, 07:43 AM
 
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Why would the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE need to plot of scheme or whatever against mere mortals? That's like me plotting and scheming against an ant. Only even more so.

Back to my list:

Quran 3:4 Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution.

3:105 And do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.

3:106 On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."

3:116 Indeed, those who disbelieve - never will their wealth or their children avail them against Allah at all, and those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally.

3:119 Here you are loving them but they are not loving you, while you believe in the Scripture - all of it. And when they meet you, they say, "We believe." But when they are alone, they bite their fingertips at you in rage. Say, "Die in your rage. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts." (I found this really nasty and incitement to hate.)

As I read through the Quran again, I am once again sickened by all the talk of hate and incitement to hate and violence. I am leaving verses out that have reference of revenge/retaliation by Muslims towards disbelievers, even though in many cases it was the Muslim who originally started the problem.

Last edited by juju33312; 08-11-2015 at 07:44 AM.. Reason: forgot to bold
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Old 08-11-2015, 03:08 PM
 
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3:131 And fear the Fire, which has been prepared for the disbelievers.

3: 141 - 143 And that Allah may purify the believers [through trials] and destroy the disbelievers. Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while Allah has not yet made evident those of you who fight in His cause and made evident those who are steadfast? And you had certainly wished for martyrdom before you encountered it, and you have [now] seen it [before you] while you were looking on.

3:149 O you who have believed, if you obey those who disbelieve, they will turn you back on your heels, and you will [then] become losers.

3:151 We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.

3: 176 And do not be grieved, [O Muhammad], by those who hasten into disbelief. Indeed, they will never harm Allah at all. Allah intends that He should give them no share in the Hereafter, and for them is a great punishment.
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:13 AM
 
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3:177 Verily, those who purchase disbelief at the price of Faith, not the least harm will they do to Allah. For them, there is a painful torment.

3:178 And let not the disbelievers think that Our postponing of their punishment is good for them. We postpone the punishment only so that they may increase in sinfulness. And for them is a disgracing torment.
(This is really sick....this illustrates how much 'allah' loves inflicting painful and disgracing torment on people. The good news is that in reality this is just Muhammed's way of explaining why his imaginary super-friend isn't taking any action against disbelievers.)

3:196 - 197 Be not deceived by the [uninhibited] movement of the disbelievers throughout the land. A brief enjoyment; then, their ultimate abode is Hell; and worst indeed is that place for rest.

4:18 But repentance is not [accepted] of those who [continue to] do evil deeds up until, when death comes to one of them, he says, "Indeed, I have repented now," or of those who die while they are disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful punishment.

4:37 Those who are miserly and enjoin miserliness on other men and hide what Allah has bestowed upon them of His Bounties. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a disgraceful torment.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:20 PM
 
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4:42 That Day, those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish they could be covered by the earth. And they will not conceal from Allah a [single] statement.

4:46 Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

4:51 - 52 Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture, who believe in superstition and false objects of worship and say about the disbelievers, "These are better guided than the believers as to the way"? Those are the ones whom Allah has cursed; and he whom Allah curses - never will you find for him a helper

4:56 Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

4:91 You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization.
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
3:131 And fear the Fire, which has been prepared for the disbelievers.

3: 141 - 143 And that Allah may purify the believers [through trials] and destroy the disbelievers. Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while Allah has not yet made evident those of you who fight in His cause and made evident those who are steadfast? And you had certainly wished for martyrdom before you encountered it, and you have [now] seen it [before you] while you were looking on.

3:149 O you who have believed, if you obey those who disbelieve, they will turn you back on your heels, and you will [then] become losers.

3:151 We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.

3: 176 And do not be grieved, [O Muhammad], by those who hasten into disbelief. Indeed, they will never harm Allah at all. Allah intends that He should give them no share in the Hereafter, and for them is a great punishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
3:177 Verily, those who purchase disbelief at the price of Faith, not the least harm will they do to Allah. For them, there is a painful torment.

3:178 And let not the disbelievers think that Our postponing of their punishment is good for them. We postpone the punishment only so that they may increase in sinfulness. And for them is a disgracing torment.
(This is really sick....this illustrates how much 'allah' loves inflicting painful and disgracing torment on people. The good news is that in reality this is just Muhammed's way of explaining why his imaginary super-friend isn't taking any action against disbelievers.)

3:196 - 197 Be not deceived by the [uninhibited] movement of the disbelievers throughout the land. A brief enjoyment; then, their ultimate abode is Hell; and worst indeed is that place for rest.

4:18 But repentance is not [accepted] of those who [continue to] do evil deeds up until, when death comes to one of them, he says, "Indeed, I have repented now," or of those who die while they are disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful punishment.

4:37 Those who are miserly and enjoin miserliness on other men and hide what Allah has bestowed upon them of His Bounties. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a disgraceful torment.
Not a one of them is promoting violence. They are the probable outcomes they face in the after life if they continue deliberately disobeying Allaah(swt)

There is a subtle difference between a disbeliever and an unbeliever.

Full Definition of DISBELIEVE
transitive verb
: to hold not worthy of belief : not believe
intransitive verb
: to withhold or reject belief
— dis·be·liev·er noun
Disbelieve | Definition of disbelieve by Merriam-Webster

Full Definition of UNBELIEVER
1
: one that does not believe in a particular religious faith
2
: one that does not believe : an incredulous person : doubter, skeptic
See unbeliever defined for English-language learners
Unbeliever | Definition of unbeliever by Merriam-Webster

A disbeliever is performing and active action of rejection. an unbeliever has not found reason to believe

To disbelieve is a matter of choice and a deliberated rejection of God(swt). they choose not to be with God(swt) and The option of not being in heaven is to choose being in Hell. A disbeliever buys his own plane ticket and has freely chosen his destination.
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Not a one of them is promoting violence. They are the probable outcomes they face in the after life if they continue deliberately disobeying Allaah(swt)
You have a psychology background and you should know better.
But I know for a fact, when the theistic bug in a person is full blown and festered, regardless of their academic or professional credential, they will be blind to rationality and critical thinking in all matters related to their religion.

Think!
Do you think [in general] films and other medias that contain a lot of violence and evil scenes and element deliberately set out to promote evils and violence?
I am sure they don't have such intentions to promote violence other than to make money within a background of entertainment to the public.
Depending on the degree, the authorities imposed censorships, banning, the need to issue warnings to audience, PG ratings and other preventive methods.

It is similar [but with a specific difference] for the Quran which is no-holds-barred for SOME Muslims as far as cruelty is concerned, in contrast to Christianity with its limit of 'love thy enemies' and the likes.

Violent and Cruelty Verses in the Quran
To date I [personally] have marked 476+ [could be more] verses of cruelty from mild to the most extreme in the Quran. The extremes are really vengeful and VERY evil!

Such verses involving violence and cruelty will definitely have an impact on any vulnerable person who read them regularly in any normal circumstances.
BUT an eschatological theistic circumstances is an extra-ordinary circumstance that has a 'black hole' -on the matter of life and death -that will suck/brainwashed the one with higher religious tendencies into a life of evil and violence. [Theory X]

Do I even have to prove my Theory X that the 476+ of cruelty verses in the Quran together other evil elements has an influence and inspire SOME [note 'SOME' only] Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence around the world.



Quote:
There is a subtle difference between a disbeliever and an unbeliever.
Disbelieve | Definition of disbelieve by Merriam-Webster

Unbeliever | Definition of unbeliever by Merriam-Webster
There is a difference but it is not significant.
Both 'disbelievers' and 'unbelievers' are classified as non-Muslims, i.e. the 'THEM' within the primal "us versus them' impulse and thus are targeted by SOME Muslims [influenced, motivated and inspired by the evil element in the Quran] to kill non-Muslim regardless of the circumstance.
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