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Those maps come up again and again are the source of countless misconceptions.
1. Yes, MD is majority catholic. However, it has far fewer Catholics than PA and more Baptists than PA. If one looked at the stats, rather than a simplified map, one would see that religiously MD is somewhere in-between PA and VA. Also, the most Catholic county (St. Mary's) is also the most culturally southern.
2. That dialect map is good, Aschmann has put a lot of work into it. However, it's not professional research, it's his hobby. He mentions he doesn't have enough data for MD as it may be "one of the most linguistically complex regions". Not all dialect maps agree either: The Atlas of North American English, for example, places about 2/3 of MD in Lowland South or Inland South, 1/3 as "Philadelphia". There's also the dialect continuum to consider: Baltimoreans do show southernisms in their speech.
1. Maryland was founded as a haven for Catholics.
2. Maryland started out as a southern colony. This is why 2/3 of Maryland are shown as southern in some dialect maps. However, people have started to calling Maryland a northeastern state 100 years ago due to Maryland becoming more similar to New Jersey.
To show that an entire active chapter dedicated for support of Maryland being part of a new Southern nation being alive a well should make you think twice about Maryland not being a southern state. Just beware if you live in or visit Maryland and run across these people just like unionists did during the Civil War against the CSA sympthesizers!
Status:
"48 years in MD, 18 in NC"
(set 14 days ago)
Location: Greenville, NC
2,309 posts, read 6,104,814 times
Reputation: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeinScotts
If a maryland man came down here and claimed to a southerner we would all have a good hearty laugh.
That has been the case... But only after I told them I was from Maryland. Most folks just think I'm another good old boy. Even one of my docs that is from NC thought for sure that I was a native. He used a figure of speech on me that only someone that is from this area would understand. He had to explain it to me. He asked me if I had any trouble making water. I was like "What is that?"
Your opinion of Maryland is made up from living in the Baltimore / DC corridor. Maryland is a whole lot more than just that area.
Status:
"48 years in MD, 18 in NC"
(set 14 days ago)
Location: Greenville, NC
2,309 posts, read 6,104,814 times
Reputation: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
MD white voters 56% Obama - Massachusetts white voters 56% Obama. Sorry, I'll take the word of the southerner who has actually lived in both MA and MD.
Go check out my stats on the latest gubernatorial election. Just because whites were willing to trying something different for a change, doesn't mean they were happy with it.
I just came back on vacation from Orlando (family trip). Met quite a few Baltimoreans there. We were on the bus to go to Animal Kingdom and this family was there. Their group included people from Georgia, Baltimore, and one guy from Liverpool was there. They open up conversation by asking us if we were from Michigan. Any opportunity for me to talk about Michigan is great so I took it. So my family started talking to them because they love Michigan, too. We then find out where they are from. First lady replies Georgia. Second guy replies Liverpool. Says he's trying to sound more American. Then one of the people in my group asks a guy (White guy) sitting next to the Georgia woman where he's from. He replies "Bawldamore". I then switch seats to sit closer to them and I remark "Best. Accent. Ever".
He replies by saying "what accent, Southern?"
So then I ask them "do you consider yourselves Northern or Southern?" One of them replies "middle, really, but more Southern than anything. If you look at history we are definitely Southern." To which people in my family reply by saying they always thought Maryland was Northern.
I then say "well you definitely sound Southern". The guy then laughs and says "you know it's funny when I went out to Colorado and ordered a 'wooder' they came back with a beer since they didn't know what I meant."
There guy from Liverpool was also there in that group. He said he was trying to sound more American. I then said that if he muddled his accent a bit he would sound more like the Baltimore guy. Baltimore guy agreed.
When we were back in the airport we also heard a lot of Baltimore people because their gate was next to Chicago's. Most of them definitely had a Southern sound. I didn't go out of my way to ask of them if they were Southern or Northern. However I do think their Southern sound is different than say, Alabama's. But then again most Southern accents vary from each other so it's not a fair comparison. When people group Philly with Baltimore they do admit that Baltimore is the Southern sounding accent of the two, and that even Philly for being in the Northeast has some Southern vowels to it (like their "o" sound). One thing ALL Southern dialects share in common is the vowels. The Southern drawl is based on how one pronounces their vowels. It's believed that Southerners like to add extra sounds to their vowels and this is definitely seen in Maryland (including Baltimore) where the Northern Cities Vowel Shift is absent. The fact that the term Northern Cities Vowel Shift is even in existence implies that Southerners have a different way of pronouncing vowels. People in Baltimore do not have Northern Cities Vowel Shift so it is fair to say that that aspect of their dialect is NOT Northern.
I just came back on vacation from Orlando (family trip). Met quite a few Baltimoreans there. We were on the bus to go to Animal Kingdom and this family was there. Their group included people from Georgia, Baltimore, and one guy from Liverpool was there. They open up conversation by asking us if we were from Michigan. Any opportunity for me to talk about Michigan is great so I took it. So my family started talking to them because they love Michigan, too. We then find out where they are from. First lady replies Georgia. Second guy replies Liverpool. Says he's trying to sound more American. Then one of the people in my group asks a guy (White guy) sitting next to the Georgia woman where he's from. He replies "Bawldamore". I then switch seats to sit closer to them and I remark "Best. Accent. Ever".
He replies by saying "what accent, Southern?"
So then I ask them "do you consider yourselves Northern or Southern?" One of them replies "middle, really, but more Southern than anything. If you look at history we are definitely Southern." To which people in my family reply by saying they always thought Maryland was Northern.
I then say "well you definitely sound Southern". The guy then laughs and says "you know it's funny when I went out to Colorado and ordered a 'wooder' they came back with a beer since they didn't know what I meant."
There guy from Liverpool was also there in that group. He said he was trying to sound more American. I then said that if he muddled his accent a bit he would sound more like the Baltimore guy. Baltimore guy agreed.
When we were back in the airport we also heard a lot of Baltimore people because their gate was next to Chicago's. Most of them definitely had a Southern sound. I didn't go out of my way to ask of them if they were Southern or Northern. However I do think their Southern sound is different than say, Alabama's. But then again most Southern accents vary from each other so it's not a fair comparison. When people group Philly with Baltimore they do admit that Baltimore is the Southern sounding accent of the two, and that even Philly for being in the Northeast has some Southern vowels to it (like their "o" sound). One thing ALL Southern dialects share in common is the vowels. The Southern drawl is based on how one pronounces their vowels. It's believed that Southerners like to add extra sounds to their vowels and this is definitely seen in Maryland (including Baltimore) where the Northern Cities Vowel Shift is absent. The fact that the term Northern Cities Vowel Shift is even in existence implies that Southerners have a different way of pronouncing vowels. People in Baltimore do not have Northern Cities Vowel Shift so it is fair to say that that aspect of their dialect is NOT Northern.
This sounds like an awfully convenient story that you just made up to make your case stronger. Nobody is saying Baltimore is completely Southern free in its accent, but it is not a full blown Southern accent. If baltimorese is Southern than so is Philadelphia and that's obviously not true.
This sounds like an awfully convenient story that you just made up to make your case stronger. Nobody is saying Baltimore is completely Southern free in its accent, but it is not a full blown Southern accent. If baltimorese is Southern than so is Philadelphia and that's obviously not true.
I am well aware of the fact that even some Southern sounding Baltimoreans will not admit to being Southern. You don't have to believe me. In fact, if I wanted to make something up I could have made up a story of going to Baltimore, and meeting a ton of people that said "yes" to being Southern. But no, all I have for my frame of reference is this one guy. The fact that you can't believe that ONE person in Baltimore believes he is Southern means you are really into this delusion of Baltimore people being 100% Northeastern. What the hell is a "full blown" Southern accent supposed to mean, anyway? All Southerners have differing dialects depending on what region you're in. But, what they all share in common is vowel pronunciation. Baltimore (unlike Philly) uses Southern vowels all of the time, whereas Philly uses them *some* of the time.
Baltimore and Philadelphia are SIMILAR. Even linguists admit they can sound very different. And get off the Philly bullcrap already. As if I haven't brought it up enough. Expert linguists who admit that Philly is a Northern accent will still attest to its Southern characteristics.
A Penn linguistics study shows that traditional Southern inflections associated with Philadelphia native-born speakers are being affected by Northern influences. Current accents are moving toward patterns heard in the Northern dialects of western New England, New York state, and the Great Lakes Region.
Notice this how Philly had Southern inflections to begin with.
*Like New York City Accents, Philadelphia English features a raised pronunciation of words like thought and coffee (“kaw-fee” or IPA kɔəfi). Also like Big Apple natives, Philadelphians have a complex system called the tense-lax split, whereby the /a/ in certain “short-a” words–such as bad, path, pan, and ask–is pronounced more “tensely” (impressionistically speaking, this means that “bad” may sound a bit like “bed.”). *But like some American Southern accents, the vowels in GOOSE and GOAT are fronted (pronounced closer to the center of the vowel space — i.e. IPA gʉs and gɜʊt).
Again, the example is seen in how Philly people pronounce certain vowels.
The above describes Philly, NOT Baltimore. Philly's is a Southern-lite vowel use accent with NY sounds whereas Baltimore's is fully Southern. Find me someone with a Baltimore accent that has any NYisms in it.
See I know damn well that the Philly accent is Northeastern. You're the one who will not admit to its Southernisms, however. But to say that Baltimore's accent has NY characteristics is ridiculous.
Philly's sound in history has been "Southern-ish". The fact that I'm not the only one noticing this shows that you just want to ignore facts. If Philly's sound is "Southern-ish" then it stands to reason that Baltimore's sound is Southern because of the fact that it doesn't have a Northern Cities Vowel Shift or any of that New York pronunciation.
Baltimore's accent is not Northeastern, you've got it backwards. It's Philly's accent that has a bit of Southern in it that causes it to sound like Baltimore, not the other way around. Philly is a bad example for you to use because it has Southern aspects. Let me know when Baltimore people sound like New Yorkers or Bostonians and then you have a case. You can't use a city that already has Southernisms as an example. That's a terrible way to prove Baltimore sounds Northeastern.
This sounds like an awfully convenient story that you just made up to make your case stronger. Nobody is saying Baltimore is completely Southern free in its accent, but it is not a full blown Southern accent. If baltimorese is Southern than so is Philadelphia and that's obviously not true.
My ex girlfriend is currently working as a nurse in Baltimore and I talk to her once in awhile. One of things she mentioned to me is the accent in Baltimore sounds definitely not Northern to her (we're from CT). I asked her if she thinks the state is Northern or Southern and she said she doesn't think it's full blown southern but she also doesn't think it's northern either. She is educated though and did mention that Maryland has southern roots and she would definitely categorize it as southern much faster than Northern.
Anecdotal of course, but it goes to show that to an actual northerner, Maryland doesn't exactly sound like it fits in the same way other northern states do. This of course only has to do with the accent in the surrounding areas. I would still keep to the facts and Maryland's history until the day Maryland officially switches regions.
It's happened before with other states but Maryland has yet to do so.
Although the Mason-Dixon line is supposedly at the Maryland/Pennsylvania border, it seems to me that the transition from North to South begins around Richmond, Virginia. As the southern part of Virginia is slower paced, and there is a much more pronounced Southern accent. But get above Richmond, there is a busier, faster pace, and the prevailing cultural climate seems more Northeastern. But there is of course Southern Maryland and Western Maryland which seem a bit more rural slower paced, but the Baltimore/Washington corridor is definitely fast paced and seems to be more associated with the Northeast.
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