Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you're a guy who has trouble meeting interested women, here's an experiment. Next time you go to a party, talk to women without trying to impress them. Be interested and focused on her, but don't hang on her every syllable and don't treat her like a fertility goddess. Look at her eyes, not at the neckline of her blouse. Be the first to excuse yourself from the conversation. Talk to a lot of people. Be in the moment. Be self-deprecating. Don't talk about yourself. In fact, if someone asks about you, use a little self-deprecating humor and change the subject back to them. You'll be surprised how you suddenly become a very interesting and desirable person when you're not desperately seeking out a romantic partner.
"...talk to women without trying to impress them." Sure, I don't think I've ever talked to a woman to impress her. I've talked to a few hoping I could learn more about her and connect with her, but I've never been out to impress anyone.
"Be interested and focused on her, but don't hang on her every syllable and don't treat her like a fertility goddess."
Done it.
"Look at her eyes, not at the neckline of her blouse."
I think I'm actually pretty good at keeping my eyes away from places they're not welcome. Comes from years of my eyes not being welcome in certain places.
"Be the first to excuse yourself from the conversation."
My preferred way of ending a conversation, to make sure I'm not overstaying my welcome.
"Talk to a lot of people."
Done it.
"Be in the moment."
Not sure what this means.
"Be self-deprecating. Don't talk about yourself. In fact, if someone asks about you, use a little self-deprecating humor and change the subject back to them."
I've actually heard to not use self-depreciating humor if you're struggling with confidence. That said, I've used it many times. For instance, when I was learning to ballroom dance, I met a medical professional..."Oh, you're a doctor? Can you help me surgically remove this second left foot of mine so I can dance right?"
"You'll be surprised how you suddenly become a very interesting and desirable person when you're not desperately seeking out a romantic partner."
Nope.
"...talk to women without trying to impress them." Sure, I don't think I've ever talked to a woman to impress her. I've talked to a few hoping I could learn more about her and connect with her, but I've never been out to impress anyone.
"Be interested and focused on her, but don't hang on her every syllable and don't treat her like a fertility goddess."
Done it.
"Look at her eyes, not at the neckline of her blouse."
I think I'm actually pretty good at keeping my eyes away from places they're not welcome. Comes from years of my eyes not being welcome in certain places.
"Be the first to excuse yourself from the conversation."
My preferred way of ending a conversation, to make sure I'm not overstaying my welcome.
"Talk to a lot of people."
Done it.
"Be in the moment."
Not sure what this means.
"Be self-deprecating. Don't talk about yourself. In fact, if someone asks about you, use a little self-deprecating humor and change the subject back to them."
I've actually heard to not use self-depreciating humor if you're struggling with confidence. That said, I've used it many times. For instance, when I was learning to ballroom dance, I met a medical professional..."Oh, you're a doctor? Can you help me surgically remove this second left foot of mine so I can dance right?"
"You'll be surprised how you suddenly become a very interesting and desirable person when you're not desperately seeking out a romantic partner."
Nope.
Well, then I don't know what to tell you. You're probably kidding yourself on a few of the responses above.
You answered with, "Because I need to meet lots of women so I'll have a shot of getting one." Which circles right back to "women should do this because I need..." OK but what woman is sitting at home thinking about what some random guy she's never met might need? ...? What is HER motivation to get out to that jazz bar and increase YOUR odds?
She shouldn't get out to increase my odds. She should get out to increase her own odds. Chances are, though, if she's in an area with jazz bars, she's in an area she could find someone to go out with through online dating quicker and easier than she could by going to a bar. Jazz bar? Probably a max of 5 potential matches for her. Online...? Hundreds, from what I hear.
Well, then I don't know what to tell you. You're probably kidding yourself on a few of the responses above.
Why? The things you said aren't magic bullets to becoming a desirable man. They're how to correctly socialize with people, including those I might be interested in. All they'll do is make me less undesirable by preventing me from making certain social faux pas...they won't magically make me moredesirable than I am now. I.e., I may be moderately well socially adjusted, well enough to engage in the sorts of conversations you put here, but if I'm not a desirable man to begin with, it won't change my success in a romantic context, just my success in a social context.
She shouldn't get out to increase my odds. She should get out to increase her own odds. Chances are, though, if she's in an area with jazz bars, she's in an area she could find someone to go out with through online dating quicker and easier than she could by going to a bar. Jazz bar? Probably a max of 5 potential matches for her. Online...? Hundreds, from what I hear.
Well I wasn't talking to you, but as a woman... If I go out, I'm not thinking, "Will there be enough men there that my odds will be good in the numbers game?" I'm hoping that I'll meet one man, our conversation will be stimulating, and he'll be as available and interested as I am. There might be 30 men at the place where I go, and most of them, I won't even know if they are interested in me since we won't even interact.
But I have never connected with a prospective partner at any kind of a bar, really, not our first contact. Of course...I don't drink and I'm not really into the bar scene anyhow, unless I'm hanging with friends or shooting pool.
And online, sure, there were hundreds of "I'm a man and I want a woman" guys on the OLD apps. But once I cut out the soldiers, stoners, gang-bangers and yee-haw cowboy types and got down to the goths, geeks, and freaks, MY people, the pickings were slim indeed. Less than twenty out of all those hundreds, I think. Filter by the age range I was looking for, and it was even fewer still. And that's before any consideration of appearances or stability in life, if they had kids or a job or any number of things.
In the end, my boyfriend found me online, not on a dating site, but something a bit different, and asked would I mind talking at a social event since he saw I was going, and he was thinking of going as well. We had a great conversation. At the end of it, he asked would I mind spending some more time together at some point, and we continued on the premise of furthering our acquaintance, with no pressure or expectation of romance or sex at all.
I do. I just don't like coy game stuff. I want clear statements of consent, y'know, like the ones I'm willing to give to the men and women that I'm interested in. Not a face and a noise. I have no idea what and "mew!" means.
Sounds like you did not like HER. It's not a chick thing.
Quote:
And just because I like women, doesn't mean I want to butch up and act like a man. But it sure seems like we're both waiting for SOMEBODY to.
Well then heck there was the time I had a date set with an older, more masculine woman (I'm actually pan, so a genderfluid person is still of interest) and she freaking forgot and stood me up.
You seem to be saying if I really liked women, I'd like coy games and being flaked out on? Really, does anyone actually enjoy that?
lol. No. But not everyone is direct the way you want. And that is ok too.
And online, sure, there were hundreds of "I'm a man and I want a woman" guys on the OLD apps. But once I cut out the soldiers, stoners, gang-bangers and yee-haw cowboy types and got down to the goths, geeks, and freaks, MY people, the pickings were slim indeed. Less than twenty out of all those hundreds, I think. Filter by the age range I was looking for, and it was even fewer still. And that's before any consideration of appearances or stability in life, if they had kids or a job or any number of things.
Less than twenty...still probably a lot more than you could find at a bar. Maybe not as many as you could find at a con or an event, but, those don't exactly happen every Friday night. And that's my point...to a woman looking to be selective in dating, she's going to have an easier time of it being intentional rather than accidental. Meaning, if she's at a jazz bar on a Friday night, she's probably there to listen to jazz and chill rather than find someone to date. Whereas, me, honestly, I have gone into bars and other places with my ear to the ground, hoping to maybe meet someone (and been completely ignored on most occasions). As has been said on here, men are usually the ones trying to do the meeting, women are usually the ones trying to do the weeding.
If a guy has anywhere near 20 matches...intentional matches, who matched him first...after doing interest-weeding himself, he is a very rare man, indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
What At Arms Length is talking about with getting better at socializing, just making that initial connection with a higher number of women who COULD be candidates...that's a great place to start in my opinion. He may need to take a next step at some point of working out the best way to indicate dating interest without coming off as threatening or pushy (which is a thing I sympathize with, when it comes to women I've wanted to date, I struggle with it, too.)
(From a different post)
I'd been led to believe that this sort of thing is a bad idea. If she's interested she'll let me know, and if not, keep it friendly and no further, like she's doing.
Sounds like you did not like HER. It's not a chick thing.
lol. No. But not everyone is direct the way you want. And that is ok too.
Oh, I like her. Just...if I throw down clear statements of interest and even consent and the vibe I get back seems really hesitant, even if it's still kinda flirty, I'm going to assume that she is playing the "it's fun to flirt with my friends but it doesn't mean I want to date/have sex with them" game. The other point is that even though I like women and, as I say, get crushes on them fairly often, I'm by no means desperate to get a woman in my life. It's not a goal, it's just something I'm open to if it all happened to line up. So far it doesn't seem to be happening and that's ok too.
But when it comes to any partner, I'm always thinking that if we develop very strong feelings for one another, unless I'm very carefully structuring it so that this will NOT happen, they can end up in my closest inner circle. The one that presently includes my fiance and my sons and my cat. Household-close, even, in time. And because of that, and the fact that I have no tolerance at all for drama, fuss or conflict in that space, if I detect hints of problematic life behavior, I sort of lock people into a place where I feel safe...out there...where they can't cause me stress, and their problems aren't my problems. It so happens that even the women I meet who really seem to have it together, have downsides to who they are that I cannot accept in the closest of my circles. Thus far. You can be an incredibly sexy genius with a great career and a great education and money, but if you're also bipolar and get blackout drunk at least a couple of times a month if not every weekend... I adore you, but meh, it's probably for the best it didn't work out. (This is only one example--I've similarly given up on women who, as I've said, were flaky or uncommunicative or problematic for me in other contexts, too.)
My sample size of women I've at least tried to connect with, thinking something could come of it, is pretty small, though. As I said, it's not tremendously important to me, and I'm damn sure not playing any kind of a numbers game. But I can see that if I felt more urgent about it, I'd either have to accept things that make me uncomfortable, or I'd have to expand my search, and I'd definitely have to try a lot harder. I would rather not.
All I'm saying is what I've always said, which is that I have compassion for people who are struggling to make their lives be the way they would like them to be, our struggles might not all be identical, but we've all got our particular challenges. I try to "get it" when I can.
Oh, I like her. Just...if I throw down clear statements of interest and even consent and the vibe I get back seems really hesitant, even if it's still kinda flirty, I'm going to assume that she is playing the "it's fun to flirt with my friends but it doesn't mean I want to date/have sex with them" game.
I am going to suggest that you might be making an incorrect assumption and/or incorrectly assuming that this is a female characteristic or common behavior.
I am going to suggest that you might be making an incorrect assumption and/or incorrectly assuming that this is a female characteristic or common behavior.
I'm sure that there are many mitigating factors that influence things.
If I were a lesbian and had no involvement with men, my experience with other lesbians would probably be quite different, for instance. At least I would hope so. 88% of my sexual partners have been male, and there are reasons for that, far beyond my preferences.
But several bi- or pansexual women I know agree with me that men make things easy, relatively speaking. They are not always easier in the long term of the relationship itself, but in the sense of getting a connection off the ground? Yeah.
I can tell you right now, if I had no partner, and I wanted to have sex with a man, it would be extremely easy to make that happen. I mean, not putting any other parameters or requirements on it, just saying that basic fact right there. And if I had no qualifying criteria and I wanted a RELATIONSHIP with a man, that would also be extremely easy to get. For me.
But if I had no partner and I set out wanting sex with another woman? I would not be able to simply and easily find that. There would be at least some challenge to it, comparatively. If I wanted a relationship with a woman, even with no filters or preferences or parameters involved, just a woman, any woman...it still would not be as easy for me to get that going. Even in a community chock-full of LGBTQ+ people where hetero women are a tiny minority, it would not be "easy."
I mean, I class many things about myself with the ultimate answer of "I'm lazy and I prefer what is easy." Gender? I'm lazy, so I guess female works just fine. Orientation? I'm lazy and men have made this easier for me, so mostly men, rarely women (though I'm attracted to all sorts, including recently a couple of trans people.) Relationship style? I tried poly but it was...like...effort... What I'm doing now is easy, and...I'm lazy. So. Power dynamic? God, Master/slave sure looks like a TON of work. Even D/s is a bit much. Let's just be SM because that's fun and lets us be...lazy! lol The only hard line I draw anywhere anymore, is that I wouldn't date a vanilla person. That's it. That's all that's left, everything else has just become defined by the path of least resistance.
Now if I were a guy, struggling to find a date? I don't think that any of that would work. I'd be like, "I'm lazy" and people would be like, "Well, there you go. If you won't do the work, you can't expect the reward." I've got a certain privilege, I think, in getting away with being a lazy-arse about all this.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
and "mew!" means. 
