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@ Carly1983 I'm going to step off to the side of your main conversation you started here (which I've really been enjoying, and thank you for starting it!) and give you some thoughts, that may, hopefully, become tools you can carry in your mental toolbox for the day when you DO find your perfect mate and endeavor to have a loving relationship with him.
Because I think that, despite the part of my psyche that is resigned to simply letting people go...I also get insecure in attachment, in a way I think it is a manifestation of a similar background. I did not grow up believing that people would love me and be there for me and that I deserved to have my needs met. Letting myself feel things for casual partners is OK because I tell myself I can survive when it hurts, when they go, but they will...surely they will, they must... It is trusting others to actually step up, believing that THEY truly love me and want to stay with me...without knocking it down with "You only love me because <fake blah reason crap>" or whatever... Letting myself receive love and devotion is incredibly difficult.
Anyways.
Know your love languages. I think you probably do.
When you find your Person, remember that they are not a mind reader. "Duh"...right, but no really they are not. So there will be times that you need something, and they WILL NOT KNOW. And if you sit there waiting for them to give it to you, and thinking that if they really loved you, they'd do this or that...yeah, that's just setting them up to fail. Remember to use your words. Remember to ask for what you need. Let them know as the relationship develops, the history that made you who you are, and that occasionally you might need a little support and help from them, to quiet doubting inner voices...and that those voices are not their fault. They're just part of where you've come from. Our feelings are not always rational, so feeling insecure is not the same as believing that they are doing something wrong, for instance.
Some of this stuff...once I got it, really GOT it, deep down in my brain-stuff...has transformed my ability to conduct a healthy relationship. Well, as my fiance says, "When the student is ready, the teacher will arrive." Some things we learn just when we need them, at least that's how it's been for me.
The best guys LIKE the ride of both enjoying. Unmechanical.
Yes, I cant imagine how a guy could enjoy it if he didnt think she was enjoying it too (unless hes a sadist). Its always most enjoyable when both parties are clearly into it.
Yes, I cant imagine how a guy could enjoy it if he didnt think she was enjoying it too (unless hes a sadist). Its always most enjoyable when both parties are clearly into it.
The fact is, there are some people who simply don't care about other people At All. It is like it does not even enter their minds. So whether or not someone else enjoyed something, or that it might be cool for them too, would not even enter minds except, perhaps, as evidence of this enjoyment validates THEM.
It depends on the guy. I think it might have a lot to do with experience level. Guys who havent had much sex tend to be two pump chumps. I think they cant help it. Very experienced guys enjoy drawing out the experience and know more tricks, want to try new things, unusual positions etc.
This has not been my experience. A very experienced man, doesn't always make a quality lover. The worst I've had, claimed (and I believe them) a lot of experience, with many partners.
The qualities of an excellent lover, and I've had two who rose to the highest of my estimations, are such things as:
- They found me genuinely interesting. Whether they were really into getting to know me, or they were in love with me, I was legitimately their focus in the time we were together. They were not eaten up by other thoughts, other people, etc.
- They were legitimately enthusiastic about having sex with me. This isn't something that can be assumed that a man will be, and sometimes as a man is losing interest, the woman will be chasing sex with him and he will simply give in and do it...but his heart isn't in it at all, and he has no passion or enthusiasm. That's not going to be a good experience.
- They were willing to play and experiment. They were not super serious about it as a "performance." They were there to have FUN. It was ok to laugh, it was ok to joke, it was ok to PLAY. Sometimes adults seem to lose sight of what that even means, I think.
- They did things besides the standard set of "moves"...they found ways to touch and please that were not simply focused on the naughty bits.
- Sex wasn't over when it was over. There was laying, cuddling, listening to music, just enjoying touch. Even with a casual partner, I have done this. Many of the "experienced" guys are just so used to a formula that follows a very predictable routine of steps...and when they've reached the end of the program, they've got nothing more.
- Empathy, I think. It can be difficult for a self-centered and un-empathetic person to even wrap their minds around how they might be making another person feel. A man with high empathy can play a woman like a freakin' Stradivarius.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00
Yes, I cant imagine how a guy could enjoy it if he didnt think she was enjoying it too (unless hes a sadist). Its always most enjoyable when both parties are clearly into it.
Hrm. Careful with the word, "sadist." Has different implications for some of us. My fiance is proud to claim the term, but he's an incredible lover. He loves to be a cause of stimulation, from the gentle to the intense. And that's all I will say about that.
No, the word I'd use for the bad lovers I've had, is more like apathy. They just ASSUME you like what you're getting. One instance stands out to me as particularly bad...not only was it not enjoyable, when he was done I was prepared to erm, take matters into my own hands, for my own sake, if you follow...and he got up and put on his pants and left the room. Not even willing to stay and "help" or be part of things any further, he went away to mope. Negative attitude of any kind spoils things faster than anything I know of.
Of course another thing that is a ME thing, and I know doesn't apply to everyone... Some people can fight and have make-up sex after a big argument. I cannot. If I'm in a bad emotional place with regard to the relationship or the man, I can not enjoy sex with him. I don't want it.
The fact is, there are some people who simply don't care about other people At All. It is like it does not even enter their minds. So whether or not someone else enjoyed something, or that it might be cool for them too, would not even enter minds except, perhaps, as evidence of this enjoyment validates THEM.
Yes, I suppose there are some messed up people who lack empathy and such, the other persons feelings/enjoyment simply doesnt factor in. I hope this is rare though.
Yes, I suppose there are some messed up people who lack empathy and such, the other persons feelings/enjoyment simply doesnt factor in. I hope this is rare though.
I am beginning to think it is not that rare at all.
if the o.p. didnt have sex with him, she wouldnt be hurt by a friend that stood her up wasting her effort, time and food and refusing to respond to her ?
what does this have to do with women having casual sex ?
this guy purposefully tried to hurt your feelings and he was good at it.
Last edited by stanley-88888888; 08-07-2019 at 03:03 PM..
This has not been my experience. A very experienced man, doesn't always make a quality lover. The worst I've had, claimed (and I believe them) a lot of experience, with many partners.
The qualities of an excellent lover, and I've had two who rose to the highest of my estimations, are such things as:
- They found me genuinely interesting. Whether they were really into getting to know me, or they were in love with me, I was legitimately their focus in the time we were together. They were not eaten up by other thoughts, other people, etc.
- They were legitimately enthusiastic about having sex with me. This isn't something that can be assumed that a man will be, and sometimes as a man is losing interest, the woman will be chasing sex with him and he will simply give in and do it...but his heart isn't in it at all, and he has no passion or enthusiasm. That's not going to be a good experience.
- They were willing to play and experiment. They were not super serious about it as a "performance." They were there to have FUN. It was ok to laugh, it was ok to joke, it was ok to PLAY. Sometimes adults seem to lose sight of what that even means, I think.
- They did things besides the standard set of "moves"...they found ways to touch and please that were not simply focused on the naughty bits.
- Sex wasn't over when it was over. There was laying, cuddling, listening to music, just enjoying touch. Even with a casual partner, I have done this. Many of the "experienced" guys are just so used to a formula that follows a very predictable routine of steps...and when they've reached the end of the program, they've got nothing more.
- Empathy, I think. It can be difficult for a self-centered and un-empathetic person to even wrap their minds around how they might be making another person feel. A man with high empathy can play a woman like a freakin' Stradivarius.
Hrm. Careful with the word, "sadist." Has different implications for some of us. My fiance is proud to claim the term, but he's an incredible lover. He loves to be a cause of stimulation, from the gentle to the intense. And that's all I will say about that.
No, the word I'd use for the bad lovers I've had, is more like apathy. They just ASSUME you like what you're getting. One instance stands out to me as particularly bad...not only was it not enjoyable, when he was done I was prepared to erm, take matters into my own hands, for my own sake, if you follow...and he got up and put on his pants and left the room. Not even willing to stay and "help" or be part of things any further, he went away to mope. Negative attitude of any kind spoils things faster than anything I know of.
Of course another thing that is a ME thing, and I know doesn't apply to everyone... Some people can fight and have make-up sex after a big argument. I cannot. If I'm in a bad emotional place with regard to the relationship or the man, I can not enjoy sex with him. I don't want it.
Interesting points. I apologize about my misuse of sadist. I experimented with light bdsm and can enjoy some pain, very hard spanking and such, and it does take empathy for the other person to know how to administer it. So I used the word wrong in that context, youre right.
I agree, what it comes down to is if someone is selfish or not maybe? I think the guys I was with that I consider experienced, were experienced, because they truly enjoyed women, and women responded to them so well because this came through.
There are a couple guys that stand out in my mind as the best, and they told me their count was over 100. They were like masters of the art of sex though. Dominating but gently so, completely confident in themselves and what they were doing. They took control and were not like robotic sex machines but attuned to me and adjusted their approach based on my reactions. Stuff like that. I could only conclude they just loved everything about sex and savored it like you would a gourmet meal.
Then there was that one (different guy) that huffed off when I wanted to help myself out. It hurt his ego. I didnt appreciate that.
I am beginning to think it is not that rare at all.
I dunno. With the majority of male partners I've had, it's not a matter of callous indifference or not caring if I was enjoying myself. They just don't know what to do, besides the standard things that bring THEM enjoyment. It's more a matter of them just being too simple about it, blinded by what they were experiencing, and not knowledgeable about what really matters. I mean, one may note that in my post about what makes a man a good lover, there was NOTHING about size or stamina. But men are allllll wound up about such things.
I mean, lesbians report higher satisfaction than straight women in that regard. There is no form of stimulation that a lesbian can give to a woman that a man is incapable of. If it seems super mysterious to a guy, he could always do some research. I mean, we've got the internet now. Of course, some men think that porn is a good way to learn...and it generally isn't. (No, you fool, that particular motion only makes your wife happy if you are using it to scrub a dirty pan in the sink. lol!) But telling some guys to study and learn and try...the reaction I've gotten is, "Ugh, that's too much work."
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lol!) But telling some guys to study and learn and try...the reaction I've gotten is, "Ugh, that's too much work."
