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OK OK, OK already! ( slapping your face)...Enough! You were hurting... deeply hurt. You are human you know. Take this as a lesson as you have by starting this thread and let others learn from you. Which is much more than I could have done.
Eyewrist I just ended the affair on friday night. Not beating myself up just missing my friend. Love sucks! Haha J/k.
If you can learn anything from this.
DO NOT DO IT.
IT WONT HELP.
THERE IS NO FUTURE WITH SOMEONE YOU MEET CHEATING.
You cannot compare someone having a nervous breakdown because they are not equipped to deal with a spouses terminal illness to someone choosing to cheat. Cheating is a choice. People don't choose to break down under stress, as can be the case dealing with watching someone you love die. We all hope we have the strength to stand by our loved ones but the toll of watching someone die can be great. How can you for one second compare that to being in a lousy marriage and choosing to cheat?
You are now making all sorts of assumptions without me giving you any basis to make them. The man I was talking about did not have a nervous breakdown (which, even when it happens, is just code for "I don't feel like dealing with this s***"). His wife, who died, wasn't someone he loved. He never cared for her during her illness -- not for a day, not even for an hour. Once she could no longer cook and do laundry, she was of no value to him.
Does being married to someone who is suffering from terminal cancer automatically make you heroic? I think not. But many people seem to think otherwise, and it's one of those misconceptions that drive me up the wall. It's dismaying that one spouse can mistreat another for decades and (I suspect) act as a contributing factor in bringing on their final illness -- and then turn around and use that very illness to score sympathy points. What particularly irritates me is this idea that any misconduct short of cheating -- up to and including discarding a sick spouse like garbage -- can be justified by feelings. In your understanding, it was perfectly all right for this man to abandon his wife, because that's how he was feeling, and you assumed he was suffering from a "nervous breakdown" that made it impossible for him to act like a decent human being. Interestingly, though, this so-called "nervous breakdown" -- in the usual manner of "depressions" used to justify atrocious behavior -- didn't affect his appetite or his sleep; he had enough of a presence of mind not to go out and kill people or destroy things, or otherwise break the law; he was polite and accommodating towards his bosses. So clearly, he was able to overcome the effects of this supposed "nervous breakdown" where doing so was really important to him. Which leads us only to one conclusion -- that giving his wife at least an illusion during the last days of her life that she ever meant something to him was not important enough for him to keep his "feelings" under control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Cheating is a choice. One you don't have to make. If it's that bad leave. At least the person who leaves the ill spouse is honest enough to admit they can't deal with the situation. The cheater is just a liar too. The two do go hand in hand.
Abandoning your spouse is a choice. One you don't have to make. If it's so bad that your spouse means nothing to you, leave. Being cruel to your spouse is a choice. Raising your voice at your spouse is a choice. Trivializing things that are important to your spouse is a choice. Humiliating your spouse is a choice. Lending your spouse no emotional support, only taking and never giving anything in return is a choice. Manipulating children, in-laws and friends in order to isolate and hurt your spouse is a choice. Casually bad-mouthing your spouse to your friends and social circle is a choice. And no, feeling bad doesn't justify any of those things. Denying your spouse intimacy and love is a choice. And yes, it involves both lying and outrageous breaches of loyalty. In the case I described, the whole marriage was a lie. It was pretty obvious for years that there was no love, but the woman lived under the misapprehension that she was somehow important to the husband, as his partner and the mother of his children. When he dumped her in that hospital and went on his merry way, he showed her that she meant nothing to him; she was just a tool, a means to an end; and that he had lied to her all those years by leading her to believe otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I've seen more than one person torn up over a spouses illness. Wondered how they remained standing at the end of the day. Admired that they had the strength to continue. However, having seen that, I can understane reaching your breaking point and not being able to take any more. That's not what the cheater does. They simply seek self gratification and don't care who they hurt in the process. They're not trying to run from pain. They're causing it for others and don't care because all that matters is they get what they want at the moment.
There is nothing to admire in a man who bails the moment his wife is diagnosed with cancer. And, using "nervous breakdown" as a justification for doing whatever the hell you want (short of cheating, of course) likewise represents a search for self-gratification without regard for who gets hurt in the process. In fact, this describes pretty accurately most people who claim to suffer from depression. Using a spouse's illness as a justification to mistreat that very spouse is doubly disgusting. And cheaters, too, have pain in their lives that they run from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
And yes, being served papers in a divorce is very different from being cheated on. They're two totally different situations. The divorce is, at least, honest. It says we're done. We're moving on. Do you really think I'm staying and sleepnig around on you says the same thing? Someone who divorces me first at least respects me enough to end our relationship before moving on. Someone who'd cheat on me does not respect me, or himself in the least. He's just out for personal gratification.
There is nothing honest, respectful or soothing in a contested divorce. But, if your experience with divorce was otherwise, I congratulate you on being so lucky.
You made a lot of excellent points. People really love to play the victim. I love how the cheater says "I know what I did was wrong, but if she had just been a better wife, I wouldn't have cheated." So what? Whether your wife was neglecting you or not doesn't change the fact that you cheated or make it any less wrong.
Redisca,
There's no question abandonment is wrong and represents a betrayal of your marital vows. But you and everyone else making this argument act as if one betrayal justifies another. It doesn't. If I cheat on my wife, does that make it OK for her to cheat on me? Of course not. I'll understand why she did, probably to hurt me back. But two wrongs don't make a right and committing an immoral act because someone else did it to you doesn't make you any better than them. It makes you a hypocrite cause now you're doing exactly what you condemned them for. The better person wouldn't try to even the score. They'd walk away.
As Ivorytickler explained so well, cheating is a choice. People don't cheat because they're running from pain the way they would if they abandoned a dying spouse. At least in the latter case, the person isn't lying about what they are. They're admitting that they're weak and that you can't rely on them. The cheater is just a liar.
PassTheChocolate,
This thread really is full of hypocrisy. This thread should not have gone this long. You'd think everyone would be in agreement about cheating. And yet, we have people here actually defending the cheater.
eyewrist,
You've got to be kidding? Just like IvoryTickler pointed out, a man being neglected by his spouse can leave. A child can't find another mother. How you'd equate those two relationships astounds me.
Boneheaded,
We're not the ones with narrow minds. You say the victim in cheating is also the cheater. I'll keep that mind if I ever decide to cheat on my future wife. And if she says I'm not a victim, I'll just tell her she's narrow-minded. When you say that the spouse of a cheater will turn the cheater into a villain, that's not a coping mechanism. That's just her calling it like it is. Anyone who cheats is cold-blooded. They clearly don't care who they hurt and they don't have the courage to just end the relationship.
We're not the ones with narrow minds. You say the victim in cheating is also the cheater. I'll keep that mind if I ever decide to cheat on my future wife. And if she says I'm not a victim, I'll just tell her she's narrow-minded. When you say that the spouse of a cheater will turn the cheater into a villain, that's not a coping mechanism. That's just her calling it like it is. Anyone who cheats is cold-blooded. They clearly don't care who they hurt and they don't have the courage to just end the relationship.
Again you are assuming that all instances of cheating can be lumped into one category.
I say in my case (and it seems in a few others) I found myself not wanting to take Dad away from my children, and at the same time missing the happiness of female companionship. Sex in my case was last. Do you honestly say the moment someone cheats, everything nasty in the marriage prior is negated and forgiven, forgotten? To say they clearly don't care who they hurt is to say you can not or have not read the posts describing the terrible regret that comes along with it. Yes I lack the courage to abandon my boys....... I must be a coward.
There's no question abandonment is wrong and represents a betrayal of your marital vows. But you and everyone else making this argument act as if one betrayal justifies another. It doesn't. If I cheat on my wife, does that make it OK for her to cheat on me? Of course not. I'll understand why she did, probably to hurt me back. But two wrongs don't make a right and committing an immoral act because someone else did it to you doesn't make you any better than them. It makes you a hypocrite cause now you're doing exactly what you condemned them for. The better person wouldn't try to even the score. They'd walk away.
I wasn't saying that two wrongs make a right, and I wasn't condoning cheating. I simply suggested that at least in some situations, there are attenuating circumstances. If you say a person can act cruelly and without regard for anyone's feelings because of despair, why wouldn't it apply to cheating?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane
As Ivorytickler explained so well, cheating is a choice.
Many forms of marital misconduct are a result of choice and sometimes, a pattern of deliberate behavior that goes on for a prolonged period of time. The act of making a choice does not set cheating apart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane
People don't cheat because they're running from pain the way they would if they abandoned a dying spouse. At least in the latter case, the person isn't lying about what they are. They're admitting that they're weak and that you can't rely on them. The cheater is just a liar.
Hmm, I can think of a dozen motivations other than weakness to abandon a dying spouse. It's too much of a bother. It's no fun. Hospital chairs are uncomfortable. There is no HBO. The smell is kinda yucky. The dying spouse looks gross and can no longer wait on you hand and foot. There are different kinds of "pain", some decidedly less noble than others, and being belatedly "honest" about one's own scumminess does not change the situation. If a person is such an egotistical, self-centered douche he can't visit his dying wife for 30 minutes, he should have informed her of that fact prior to the marriage -- or at least at any time before she became terminally ill.
Ivorytickler,
So what? Whether your wife was neglecting you or not doesn't change the fact that you cheated or make it any less wrong.
Redisca,
...you and everyone else making this argument act as if one betrayal justifies another. It doesn't. ...The better person wouldn't try to even the score. They'd walk away.
PassTheChocolate,
...You'd think everyone would be in agreement about cheating. And yet, we have people here actually defending the cheater.
eyewrist,
...a man being neglected by his spouse can leave. A child can't find another mother. How you'd equate those two relationships astounds me.
Boneheaded,
...When you say that the spouse of a cheater will turn the cheater into a villain, that's not a coping mechanism. That's just her calling it like it is. Anyone who cheats is cold-blooded. They clearly don't care who they hurt and they don't have the courage to just end the relationship.
All brilliant responses! Wish I could rep them all
This thread really is full of hypocrisy. This thread should not have gone this long. You'd think everyone would be in agreement about cheating. And yet, we have people here actually defending the cheater.
Why should everyone be in agreement?
I can only speak for myself. I am not defending tho OP's actions and I am not going to repeat my position on that front. I am against the regurgitations of a select few. I do not presume to know so much about the man or his situation that I would resort to judging him in the manner that some here have. This has gone beyond differences in opinion and productive exchange.
What I SEE is a lot picking and choosing bits and pieces, ignorning and twisting a lot of what the OP expressed, more than once, to accomodate the delusion that one is better than the other. Newsflash; if a stranger's one transgression is enough basis to make you more moral, or moral at all, there are some really serious issues at work here.
I don't see where he said he was proud of his actions, or that he justifies them or that anyone, me included, has condoned what he has done. I certainly don't buy in to the hogwash that he has no morality, is a bad father and should walk away from his kids, is proud of what he did or that he "should repent or die" for what he has done.
Someone said earlier that it is black and white when it comes to other's situations, but gray when it applies to their own. There is proof positive of that here. There are people here who thrive on the mistakes and misfortunes of others. There are a certain few who feel the need to vomit the same thing over and over, can't agree to disagree, twist the theme into a barbed wire of projections and can't even keep in line with their own assertions when telling their own stories. That is where these threads degenerate. It is a crying shame when someone actually supports THAT kind of behavior.
There are those who think there are no misconceptions, there are those who do. And there are hypocrites. Period.
Again you are assuming that all instances of cheating can be lumped into one category.
I say in my case (and it seems in a few others) I found myself not wanting to take Dad away from my children, and at the same time missing the happiness of female companionship. Sex in my case was last. Do you honestly say the moment someone cheats, everything nasty in the marriage prior is negated and forgiven, forgotten? To say they clearly don't care who they hurt is to say you can not or have not read the posts describing the terrible regret that comes along with it. Yes I lack the courage to abandon my boys....... I must be a coward.
People may have different reasons for cheating, but the act itself is the same. And no matter how a person tries to justify it, it doesn't change the fact that they cheated. You chose to stay in the relationship because you didn't want to deprive your children of their father. I can respect that. Parents, the good ones at least, will sacrifice their own happiness for the sake of their kids. But staying means accepting the consequences of that decision. It sounds like you wanted it both ways. Be their for your kids and still have a sex life. And where did you get the idea that when someone cheats, everything the other person did is suddenly forgiven and forgotten? I never said that. If a woman's wife beats her and then she has an affair, does that mean his abusive behavior is suddenly forgiven? Of course not. The two are completely separate. One partner's bad behavior doesn't mitigate the other person's.
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Welcome back Boneheaded. I hope you had a good weekend
