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Old 09-16-2009, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,610,917 times
Reputation: 10616

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
As iron sharpens iron so does one man sharpen another. As Christians it is our duty to be the light of the world. To set the standard of what is write and what is wrong according to God.
Putting yourself up on quite a pedestal there, aren't you? Well, let me ask you this question: I'm Jewish--so you're telling me that I have no hope because I don't venerate Jesus?
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,003 posts, read 11,727,362 times
Reputation: 19541
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
"Inspired by" Yes....... "Written by".....NO! The bible was written by imperfect human beings who felt "inspired by God" to write those things. IMHO....and listen, I am speaking as someone who spent over 1/2 my life in church....20 of those years as a worship leader/pianist.... and I disagreed with 2/3 of the opinions shared there. I not only was involved with my own church, but several different denominations in the community as well. They all have their own views on things....preach from a passage in the bible and expanding on it from their own viewpoints. I deal with Him on a person level and I NEVER allow someone to tell me what God wants for my life OR what THEY think He wants me to do. I do not need for someone else to tell me those things.....as He is perfectly capable of telling me those things directly.

Here's just a little tidbit that you and others might find silly....but I'm gonna share it anyway.

I "belonged" to a church while living "down south" as a young adult. In the middle of a horrendous snow/ice storm, on a Sunday morning, I was getting ready for church. I felt as if wearing slacks and a sweater would be a good and intelligent idea....and in fact, felt like the Lord would totally approve of such a wise action....after all, a woman in long pants and a long-sleeved sweater was certainly more covered up than a woman wearing a dress above her knees and high-heeled shoes. Well, my husband notified me that my attire was totally unacceptable....that WOMEN did NOT wear pants to church.....COULD not wear pants to church! I let him know that I failed to see how that made any sense whatsoever.....that IF Jesus were to return for his children, IMHO....and he was scanning the congregation to see who was comin' home with Him.....He most CERTAINLY was not going to say.....'"Well, I was gonna take you too, but you're wearing PANTS to church....and that is TOTALLY unacceptable."' I felt as if Jesus would be proud of me....for not buying into the ridiculous concept of what or what NOT I should be wearing to church.....especially in such horrid weather!

Okay.....long story short, I did NOT go to church that day and furthermore, spoke to a couple of the elders of 2 different churches in the community about the issue of pants vs skirts/dresses. I received the same information.. '"It is completely inappropriate for women to wear pants to church...it is simply NOT done"" Needless to say......I didn't attend church for 4 years....and NEVER again in the south. When I finally did begin attending church again, it was in a church which ascribed to the "Come just as you are" policy. That's what I believe He wants from us.... to come just as you are....not because someone's threatening you with hell fire and damnation. You wanna shove people away from Christ? All you have to do is threaten, bully, criticize and judge them. Are you with Him, or against Him? He wants us to LOVE people...to open our arms and accept people, just the way they are. Do we have to agree with everything they do? No! He doesn't ask us to do that.....ever. But then, that's MY interpretation....that's what I hear Him saying to ME.
An addition to my post here.....After my incident with the church down south, I made the decision to NEVER "belong" to a church again. Although I was involved in the church/churches, never again did I buy into the "membership" clause, in spite of pressure over the years to do so. My theory is this, "I am perfectly content with the concept of "belonging" to God....however, I am absolutely opposed to "belonging" to the church! That's the problem with many organized religions.....they try to hook you in with the "belonging" crap, guilt you into thinking with a "pack mentality" and swindle you into giving up a percentage of your monthly income, no matter how measly that might be. '"The reason you're POOR has NOTHING to do with the fact that you have tons of medical bills, a mortgage and car payment and just lost your job! You are POOR because you have NOT been tithing to the LORD!!! If you will start being a faithful giver, give the church (the Lord) 10% of your income per month, He will see to it that not only are your bills paid, but you will have an ABUNDANCE of money left at the end of the month. You're only getting unemployment? Well that's a gift from God....give Him 10% of it and He'll see to that all of your needs are met and you will get a job that will MORE than meet your needs! If He's not giving you what you need, you must be holding something back...or not doing SOMTHING right in your life! "'

If you want to do for your neighbors, then DO for your neighbors.......We all have 24 hrs in a day to help others. The problem with many of those 10% tithers is this....They turn their backs on the folks who are out in the community...in fact, their very neighbors.....because they already "gave at the office".

Last edited by beachmel; 09-16-2009 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:07 PM
 
31 posts, read 109,172 times
Reputation: 26
Amen, what he says is absolutely right.

A few thoughts:
-No one is forcing anyone to "believe" anything, so there's no need to be on the offense
-ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; it's not a matter of being "moral" -- there are many well-intending people in the world who have a sense of morality. But no one but God is perfect, therefore, we need a Savior.
-To my Jewish friend, we are all on the same playing field. You may feel "offended" by the message, but don't shoot the messenger! Christians don't make the rules...and if you read your Torah, you will see the very prediction that the Jews (many of them) would reject Christ as the Messiah, so why is this a surprise to you that you are doing that very thing? You don't have to; give your life to Him and be saved.
-To the non-church-goers... I am truly sorry for your experiences! The people you have encountered are the very "pharisees" Jesus mentioned in the Bible! God does not look on the outer appearance, but on the heart! What you wear, etc., does not matter. Remember that people (even Christians) are still sinful and flawed, and sometimes judge even when they shouldn't. They get caught up in "religion" instead of remembering it is about relationship! Even I do this at times, and know better -- but we are all so messed up in our thinking. Thank God he is patient with us and changing us day by day...
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,112 posts, read 30,635,477 times
Reputation: 16395
Quote:
Originally Posted by alisonsk View Post
Amen, what he says is absolutely right.

A few thoughts:
-No one is forcing anyone to "believe" anything, so there's no need to be on the offense
-ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; it's not a matter of being "moral" -- there are many well-intending people in the world who have a sense of morality. But no one but God is perfect, therefore, we need a Savior.
-To my Jewish friend, we are all on the same playing field. You may feel "offended" by the message, but don't shoot the messenger! Christians don't make the rules...and if you read your Torah, you will see the very prediction that the Jews (many of them) would reject Christ as the Messiah, so why is this a surprise to you that you are doing that very thing? You don't have to; give your life to Him and be saved.
-To the non-church-goers... I am truly sorry for your experiences! The people you have encountered are the very "pharisees" Jesus mentioned in the Bible! God does not look on the outer appearance, but on the heart! What you wear, etc., does not matter. Remember that people (even Christians) are still sinful and flawed, and sometimes judge even when they shouldn't. They get caught up in "religion" instead of remembering it is about relationship! Even I do this at times, and know better -- but we are all so messed up in our thinking. Thank God he is patient with us and changing us day by day...
See... this is what I find sad about most organized religions... it's some imaginary being convincing you that you're a bad person, and that you'll NEVER be good enough. Therefore you need to devote your time to fostering a relationship with this imaginary friend.

Think of it from another angle... if someone came up to you and said 'I've developed a relationship with George... you can't see him, hear him and I can't prove he's there...but I feel him and he tells me I'm a bad person and that I'll never be good enough. I believe him so I'll continue worshiping him and hope that I'll change'. Doesn't that sound just a wee bit crazy to you?
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,301 posts, read 2,111,153 times
Reputation: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
See... this is what I find sad about most organized religions... it's some imaginary being convincing you that you're a bad person, and that you'll NEVER be good enough. Therefore you need to devote your time to fostering a relationship with this imaginary friend.

Think of it from another angle... if someone came up to you and said 'I've developed a relationship with George... you can't see him, hear him and I can't prove he's there...but I feel him and he tells me I'm a bad person and that I'll never be good enough. I believe him so I'll continue worshiping him and hope that I'll change'. Doesn't that sound just a wee bit crazy to you?
Amen
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,789 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
See, that is the problem with you cretins. You assume that you live in a theocracy but ignore the fact it is a democracy meaning the will of the majority rules.

If you are so sure the USA public will support your fundamental approach, start a united christian party and see how far you get or who will support you.

Xianity is NOT conservative, it is subversive, particularly the American evangelicals.

Christians have never been the majority... especially true Christians. They will always be the minority. The Bible offers a better worldly life as well as an eternal life. Yet, people have major misconceptions of the Bible and God.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,789 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Putting yourself up on quite a pedestal there, aren't you? Well, let me ask you this question: I'm Jewish--so you're telling me that I have no hope because I don't venerate Jesus?
I am not putting myself on a pedestal... I am just quoting the Bible. I am a sinner just like everyone else.

Everyone has hope... hope that they accept Jesus as the TRUE God.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,789 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by supernerdgirl View Post
how do you know i'm not living a moral life?

I never intentionally hurt anyone, I don't sleep around, I don't lie, I do an honest job in my work.... but just because I don't believe in your fairy tale I'm not living a moral life?

I really take offense to your comment.
I am sorry if I offended you. I did not mean to go down that route. Good works in God's eyes are nothing but filthy rags. He demands one thing belief in Him. One someone tells me, "Oh he is a good guy?" Really compared to what? ... how does he compare to God's standard of good. When you look at God's standard of good people do not look like angles anymore : )

When were you born-again? Jesus said we all must be born again. Not a physical rebirth, but a sprititual rebirth. It is a complete change in how you have been living your life. Some people have major changes others have minor changes. Some people change quickly others changes slowly. But overall everyone that goes through this unique change... changes towards the values of the Bible and one can see it in their life.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,789 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
Feel more than free to site examples of any and all laws impinging on YOUR right to worship as you see fit.

There is NO inherent right in this, or any Nation, for you to impose YOUR religion onto everyone else through Laws.

Shall I wait up for this list of laws impinging on your right to worship?
I give to Caesar what is Caesars. But when Caesar does what is against what God who create Caesar, that's when I have an issue. I won't say nothing.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,789 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
What you really mean is that this is your motto. What you're essentially saying is that you're wicked and immoral and have absolutely no self control so you need religion to make you be moral. The vast majority of atheists are moral and decent people. The difference is that they don't need the belief in some tyrannical spaceman in order to be moral.
The vast majority of atheist are moral? BY WHAT STANDARD? By your own standard! By the world's standard. The world's standard is flawed. People who compare themselves to others are not wise.

World: "Well, that guy killed three people... I only killed two. I guess I am not that bad."

God: "Thall shall not murder"
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