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The single greatest cause of atheism today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable
Jesus said: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."
Paul said, "They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny Him."
That is the typically church person. The same person that you see and think, "Oh that is a Christian... that is what Christianity is all about?... I don't want to be a part of it."
Do not depend on church people to be the example of what the Bible preaches.
On the other side... you probably have issues on what the Bible says to begin with. Overall, if you are going to attack attack the Bible and not people who you assume are following the Bible.
Jesus said: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."
Paul said, "They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny Him."
That is the typically church person. The same person that you see and think, "Oh that is a Christian... that is what Christianity is all about?... I don't want to be a part of it."
Do not depend on church people to be the example of what the Bible preaches.
On the other side... you probably have issues on what the Bible says to begin with. Overall, if you are going to attack attack the Bible and not people who you assume are following the Bible.
Since I don't know god, the only way I *can* know Christianity is by the people who label themselves "Christian". Just like the only way you can know Islam is by the people who label themselves "Muslim", since you refuse to acknowledge Allah.
This is what we mean by the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, which you seemed determined to ignore.
The single greatest cause of atheism today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable
SouperStar34, you misunderstand atheism. While there are atheists who reject religion because of the reasons you claim, they tend to be in a small minority. While there are many reasons for why someone may become an atheist, it most often isn't for the reasons you state. By and large, atheists are atheists because of intellectual honesty. It isn't the way christians act that they tend to find to be unbelievable, it's the god claim that they find unbelievable. Most people don't believe in the graveyard gods because there is no evidence to support their existence. Atheists simply apply this logic to all gods rather than to all gods but the one x religion posits as being true. Believers can't empirically verify their beliefs, therefore it would be illogical to accept them as true. It has nothing to do with hedonism, anger, hatred etc.
Quite so, agnostic! It's also a natural consequence of overlaying what you were taught to be inerrantly true in Sunday School on top of what you then, as a rational adult, observe all around you.
What I saw, all alone in the Arctic for months, repeated annually and seasonally for many years, with no human input to "adjust reality' for me, was startling and obvious. It proved to me, empirically, that there certainly was little possibility of a Godly mystic, operating without reason nor compassion.
What followed was a brief review of other alternatives: Buddhism, Islam, scientology, etc. Most were flawed and tainted with the same brush of arrogance and childish simplification of the complexities all around us. (Well, not so much Buddhism, which, if I had to be spiritually involved with an organized religion, would be the obvious choice...). The relentless deflective dismissals and creativity of Christianity was too much for a person with perhaps a more worldly exposure. One who had honestly examined the alternatives.
As far as the Church is concerned though, such "alternative" considerations are diligently rooted out, demonized and punished. That alone should tell you that the demonizers are hell-bent on maintaining their position of power.
BTW, SS34, your insulting suggestions about the morals of atheists should be better sanctioned here. Most atheists I know have concluded that they're responsible for their own behavior, the honesty of their interactions with others and the value of their promises and love expressed to those important to them. To say we're all immoral by virtue of being atheists? Unforgivable, and mindless.
I suggest that those who hide behind the Cross, as somehow being sacrosanct and beyond moral reproach, is to perpetrate the now-famous indiscretions of thousands of sexually deprived priests, they having been forced into an untenable situation by Godly fiat and stricture. Too bad for them. Hiding behind anything is immoral, frankly.
It is by exposure to the real world, coupled with honest self-examination, that a set of true and good moral values arises. One is then responsible to oneself for one's resulting behavior. I do not need to confir with any god beforehand; no praying and asking for guidance and approval.
Since I don't know god, the only way I *can* know Christianity is by the people who label themselves "Christian". Just like the only way you can know Islam is by the people who label themselves "Muslim", since you refuse to acknowledge Allah.
This is what we mean by the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, which you seemed determined to ignore.
You can know God through his written word. "Faith comes from hearing... hearing the word of God."
SouperStar34, you misunderstand atheism. While there are atheists who reject religion because of the reasons you claim, they tend to be in a small minority. While there are many reasons for why someone may become an atheist, it most often isn't for the reasons you state. By and large, atheists are atheists because of intellectual honesty. It isn't the way christians act that they tend to find to be unbelievable, it's the god claim that they find unbelievable. Most people don't believe in the graveyard gods because there is no evidence to support their existence. Atheists simply apply this logic to all gods rather than to all gods but the one x religion posits as being true. Believers can't empirically verify their beliefs, therefore it would be illogical to accept them as true. It has nothing to do with hedonism, anger, hatred etc.
Faith is required to believe in God. But faith in the God of the Bible is not blind faith as atheist claim. The faith that I have is based on evidence. Evidence that supports inspiration of the Bible. That what the Bible says is true, because it was inspired by God. Yet this evidence is rarely never talked about in the church and most Christians have no clue. Then when a Christian that actually knows about the evidence of the God of the Bible... it becomes a denial game to the atheist. They refuse to accept anything... just because they do not want to believe.
Atheist say they want evidence... but then you give it to them and they already have it in their mind that there is NO WAY... and they look for EVERY WAY to find a fault some how.
Quite so, agnostic! It's also a natural consequence of overlaying what you were taught to be inerrantly true in Sunday School on top of what you then, as a rational adult, observe all around you.
What I saw, all alone in the Arctic for months, repeated annually and seasonally for many years, with no human input to "adjust reality' for me, was startling and obvious. It proved to me, empirically, that there certainly was little possibility of a Godly mystic, operating without reason nor compassion.
What followed was a brief review of other alternatives: Buddhism, Islam, scientology, etc. Most were flawed and tainted with the same brush of arrogance and childish simplification of the complexities all around us. (Well, not so much Buddhism, which, if I had to be spiritually involved with an organized religion, would be the obvious choice...). The relentless deflective dismissals and creativity of Christianity was too much for a person with perhaps a more worldly exposure. One who had honestly examined the alternatives.
As far as the Church is concerned though, such "alternative" considerations are diligently rooted out, demonized and punished. That alone should tell you that the demonizers are hell-bent on maintaining their position of power.
BTW, SS34, your insulting suggestions about the morals of atheists should be better sanctioned here. Most atheists I know have concluded that they're responsible for their own behavior, the honesty of their interactions with others and the value of their promises and love expressed to those important to them. To say we're all immoral by virtue of being atheists? Unforgivable, and mindless.
I suggest that those who hide behind the Cross, as somehow being sacrosanct and beyond moral reproach, is to perpetrate the now-famous indiscretions of thousands of sexually deprived priests, they having been forced into an untenable situation by Godly fiat and stricture. Too bad for them. Hiding behind anything is immoral, frankly.
It is by exposure to the real world, coupled with honest self-examination, that a set of true and good moral values arises. One is then responsible to oneself for one's resulting behavior. I do not need to confir with any god beforehand; no praying and asking for guidance and approval.
Only children need do that.
IN GENERAL... if an atheist does not act on the immorality that is against what God has taught, they USUALLY support the immorality.
-Sex before marriage
-Multiple sex partners
-Homosexuality
-Cohabitation
-Divorce
-Drunkenness
To the world this is ALL normal... to God this is not normal. Yet he knew that most people would rather be lovers of pleasure than lovers of light.
You can know God through his written word. "Faith comes from hearing... hearing the word of God."
Is that the same "written word" that contradicts itself constantly?
The same "wirtten word" that claims the "sun and moon stood still in the sky for a whole day", when, besides being physically impossible, there is no record of such an event in any culture around the world?
The same "written word" that claims we are all decendants of incestious relationships between Cain and Able and their mom, or those sisters your "written word" failes to mention, ignoring for the moment the mutations such inbreeding would generate after a mere seven generations?
The same "written word" that claims some 900 year old guy can somehow build a wooden craft that far exceeds the structural capacity of wood so he can somehow cram tens of millions of birds, fish, animals, reptiles, and incests, plus their food for decades (including raw meat) into said boat?
The same "written word" that claims there is enough water on the planet to compeltely inundate the entire surface so the above sailor can survive with his family (favoritism) and those tens of millions of animals, fish, bird, insects, and reptiles plus their food for decades, not to mention tons of seeds, so your "loving god" can drown everything else from kids to kittens?
That "written word"?
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