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Is not this scriptures perspective? That is how scripture proclaims it. Is it not?
Look: Rom 4:5 But to the one not working, but believing on Him justifying the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
That is from Paul's perspective. And Alabama, since you consider yourself UR.....do you believe that post mortem, in the Lake of Fire, the soul is redeemed and has his place next to the righteous saint?
That is from Paul's perspective. And Alabama, since you consider yourself UR.....do you believe that post mortem, in the Lake of Fire, the soul is redeemed and has his place next to the righteous saint?
It's the Holy Spirits perspective. Paul records it. The Holy Spirit is God.
I don't know when God will regenerate all souls. I just know He does and He will through the Spirit.
He will bring all to glory on Christ's merits alone. Whether we like it or not, we're going to see both Obama and Bush in glory, as well as Calvin. Aint that a hoot...LOL
That is from Paul's perspective. And Alabama, since you consider yourself UR.....do you believe that post mortem, in the Lake of Fire, the soul is redeemed and has his place next to the righteous saint?
You profess belief in the salvation that Christ achieved (not us) . . . yet you persist in tying it to the consequences of being imperfect at death. IF you are in a sewer drowning in feces, urine and assorted crap and you are saved by being removed from it . . . WHY do you associate the "cleansing" that is still necessary with the saving??? Jesus saved us ALL . . . but we are still imperfect (filthy) and will surely require cleansing.
Romans 4 is one of the great "Justified by Faith".
"Yep, the UR'ies, the Unies, the ones mocked for being such. They are the ones that believe the Gospel. The Good News! They believe in Jesus and what He did!"
But not the Buddist's, Muslims, JW's, Mormons, Hindu's, Baal, Mother Earth'ers, Sociologists, Assessor Worship, New Agism and those who believe in reincarnation ect. believe in Jesus and what He did.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________ "Those who believe in ET are not reckoned with Christ's righteousness, as yet. They do no believe that God justifies the ungodly. They do not believe in the Gospel and they do not believe in the true God of the bible. They believe in idols!"
In one sense, you're correct. Those who believe Jesus' words when he holds unbelief accountable don't believe a gospel message that offers false hope to the unbeliever.
The difference is, when Jesus said "It is finished" that the work of salvation for humans was finished...it didn't continue beyond that point. Therefore being said by Jesus while alive, salvation is offered while being alive.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Your Romans 4 quote is about Abraham who was justified by faith while Abraham was alive, not about the work of salvation being offered beyond death.
2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
It's not "in the time you finally get it...even if it's after death".
Has anybody else having trouble not able to quote\multi-quote lately. On my screen, on two different computers, is not showing or appearing in the reply
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-15-2010 at 01:43 PM..
Maybe you are not aware of the terms objective justification and subjective justification.
I am my friend. Objective justification is that which is being spoken of and will ultimately lead to glory:
Please look at the word justified in Romans 4:5:
Rom 4:5 τω G3588[BUT TO HIM] δε G1161 μη G3361[THAT] εργαζομενω G2038(G5740)[DOES NOT WORK,] πιστευοντι G4100(G5723)[BUT BELIEVES] δε G1161[ON] επι G1909[HIM] τον G3588[THAT] δικαιουντα G1344(G5723)[JUSTIFIES] τον G3588[THE] ασεβη G765[UNGODLY,] λογιζεται G3049(G5736)[IS RECKONED] η G3588[HIS] πιστις G4102 αυτου G846[FAITH] εις G1519[FOR] δικαιοσυνην G1343[RIGHTEOUSNESS.]
That is the same word used here in Romans 8:30 when speaking of God's eternal decrees:
Rom 8:30 ους G3739[BUT] δε G1161[WHOM] προωρισεν G4309(G5656)[HE PREDESTINATED] τουτους G5128[THESE] και G2532[ALSO] εκαλεσεν G2564(G5656)[HE CALLED;] και G2532[AND] ους G3739[WHOM] εκαλεσεν G2564(G5656)[HE CALLED,] τουτους G5128[THESE] και G2532[ALSO] εδικαιωσεν G1344(G5656)[HE JUSTIFIED;] ους G3739[WHOM] δε G1161[BUT] εδικαιωσεν G1344(G5656)[HE JUSTIFIED,] τουτους G5128[THESE] και G2532[ALSO] εδοξασεν G1392(G5656)[HE GLORIFIED.]
We are talking about objective Justification in God's eternal decrees, on the merits of Christ alone. Not the subjective reckoning of it that comes through faith.
Reckoning happens in time through faith. And it too will happen for all in regeneration. Objective justification happened at the cross. It is this objective justification that will bring all to regeneration and to final glory, in the end.
It's the Holy Spirits perspective. Paul records it. The Holy Spirit is God.
I don't know when God will regenerate all souls. I just know He does and He will through the Spirit.
He will bring all to glory on Christ's merits alone. Whether we like it or not, we're going to see both Obama and Bush in glory, as well as Calvin. Aint that a hoot...LOL
Alabama, you just delfected my question. A simple yes or no would have sufficed. Again:
Do you believe that the man is given a second chance after he dies?
Has anybody else having trouble not able to quote\multi-quote lately. On my screen, on two different computers, is not showing or appearing in the reply
Last night I did but when I refreshed the page the buttons reappeared.
Hey! I thought I tried that but I guess not....Thank's It worked
LOL I thought June went on a closing thread spree until I refreshed.. sorry June! I figured it out before cursing though .
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