Does the future of Dallas look like Mexico City? (Houston: high school, live in)

[Ambassador]

Originally Posted by diablo234

I'm talking about the Human Development Index which is much higher in Argentina and Chile than in Brazil. GDP is meaningless because you can have a large country such as Brazil and it will have a larger GDP than say Canada which is without question the more developed country. On another note Chile and Argentina have a 0.878 and a 0.866 respectively on the HDI index, while Mexico has a 0.854 on the HDI index respectively. Meanwhile the HDI index of Brazil is 0.807.





Most of Brazil's wealth is concentrated in the Southern part of Brazil while the Northeast is still poor and underdeveloped. Thus while Sao Paulo may be comparable to say Romania, Alagoas which by the way is Brazil's poorest state is more comparable to South Africa.

List of Brazilian states by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I am half Argentinean so I already have a sense of what you are talking about.

Just to be sure, the HDI is not a measure of how rich a nation is. You had orginially claimed that Argentina and Chile are richer than Brazil.

As for the HDI it is a common misconception that it measures wealth among the population of a country and/or is a direct measure of a country's actual wealth.

In reality, the HDI is a co-efficient of how the lowest two classes in each nation live ( the so called D and E classes).

It doesn't measure life at the middle, upper, and rich classes( the C, B, and A classes).

So basically it is an indicator of how well, or bad the poor of each nation live. What this tells us as far as our discussion is that the poor in Brazil (26% of the population and falling) lives worse than the poor of Argentina(19.2% and steady) and than Chile's poor( 18% and steady). For comparison Mexico's population considered poor is 47%. Mexico recently tried to say their poor is only 18% by contending that "middle class" meant anyone with access to food. In reality it is an asset based measure and was quickly revised by the international community to it's correct number.

So if the HDI measures the quality of life at the poor level, what do we have to measure the quality of life for the rest of the population, the A, B, and C classes? The answer is that there is no direct statistic or index such as the HDI.

Instead, we measure this through the residual effects of a strong middle and upper class with a strong purchasing power. This we can see in the form of direct foreign investment, size of the industrial base, unemployment levels, strength of currency, domestic monetary reserves, business creation, and other factors.

As we can measure, the Brazilian A,B,and C classes live better and have more purchasing power than their counterparts in Argentina, Chile, or anywhere else in Latin America. On the other hand, Brazil's poor do have it bad. That is the so-called income gap which Brazil used to have the worst of in the world but is currently nearly equal to that of the United States. In fact, Brazil's income gap continues to close while the one in the U.S. continues to grow.

Just look at the HDI and ask yourself if Norway ranked at #1 is richer than the United States ranked at #13. It isn't, but what that tells us is that the poor in Norway have it better than the poor in the U.S. Norway is actually somewhat of a bad example since the percentage of poor in that nation is so low. But take Spain and the U.K. Spain is ranked higher on the HDI but has nearly 20% below the povertly line compared to the U.K.'s 14%. What that tells us is that for those 20% poor in Spain life is not as bad as for those 14% in the U.K. It does not indicate-incorrectly-that the Spanish overall have a higher quality of life than those living in the United Kingdom.

Hope I was able to clear that up..and I hope I wasn't sounding condescending. The worst part about online discussions is that you can't hear the other person's tone of voice or see facial expressions. These are tricky subjects, and to reach the level I have within the State Department I had to amass a library in my house that rivals Barnes & Noble in the number of books all dealing with History, International Politics & Relations, Economics, and so forth.

I am by no means an expert, but only hope to have contributed to your own personal wealth of knowledge in some small way

[Mister Nifty]

Originally Posted by Sandstorm214

Yeah, I think a few of us would disagree with you on that point. Anecdotes, stereotypes, prejudices and hyperbole do not constitute logic.

There has been no logic in this thread. If you are trying to convince me that some ancient civilizations in Latin America even come close to comparing with Dallas - Fort Worth, then you are wasting your time.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Mister Nifty

There has been no logic in this thread. If you are trying to convince me that some ancient civilizations in Latin America even come close to comparing with Dallas - Fort Worth, then you are wasting your time.

No logic from you, other posters have used logic.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by diablo234

I'm talking about the Human Development Index ...

Nice map Diablo. Some surprises there. Germany and the UK ranked below Ireland?? Wow, that's a turnaround, eh?

That particular fact make me wonder... How is it that Germany or the UK ranks below anybody for any reason? Well, maybe this.

A good society that has money may be willing to invite poorer people to immigrate so as to share in the fruits of the good society that they have built. IOW, perhaps the best societies have an underclass not because of some sort of failure of their social structure, but because rather the opposite. Having achieved enough for themselves plus a surplus, they accept immigration as a way of doing the right thing to help people in need.

[Mister Nifty]

Originally Posted by LAnative10

No logic from you, other posters have used logic.

We aren't talking about logic here, but of a consensus. The reason basic introductory courses are provided to students in college is for the sake of effeciency. It provides the "knowers" in society the opportunity to inform new students that the former consensus taught to them in grade school was wayward. When living off tyranny's dollar, these children had to believe the propaganda. Now that they are paying for the nonsense themselves, they get the logical propaganda.
You are spouting the typical nonsense taught to children in grade school. This propaganda purports that people made to live in squalor somehow have a rich heritage and culture. Backing up all this nonsense is the consensus that every ancestor who ever lived was a foolish idiot.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Mister Nifty

We aren't talking about logic here, but of a consensus. The reason basic introductory courses are provided to students in college is for the sake of effeciency. It provides the "knowers" in society the opportunity to inform new students that the former consensus taught to them in grade school was wayward. When living off tyranny's dollar, these children had to believe the propaganda. Now that they are paying for the nonsense themselves, they get the logical propaganda.
You are spouting the typical nonsense taught to children in grade school. This propaganda purports that people made to live in squalor somehow have a rich heritage and culture. Backing up all this nonsense is the consensus that every ancestor who ever lived was a foolish idiot.

Or the crap that you so liberally throw out is pure racism, bigotry, and without any hard data.

Are you scared of quantifiable data or something?

[Mister Nifty]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

Nice map Diablo. Some surprises there. Germany and the UK ranked below Ireland?? Wow, that's a turnaround, eh?

That particular fact make me wonder... How is it that Germany or the UK ranks below anybody for any reason? Well, maybe this.

A good society that has money may be willing to invite poorer people to immigrate so as to share in the fruits of the good society that they have built. IOW, perhaps the best societies have an underclass not because of some sort of failure of their social structure, but because rather the opposite. Having achieved enough for themselves plus a surplus, they accept immigration as a way of doing the right thing to help people in need.

To further expound on what this gentleman is stating, there has existed two civilizations in history. While Eastern Civilization, the one that formed in ancient China, has sat idle wallowing in its traditions, Western Civilization, the one that formed much quicker in Greece, has advanced to circle the earth to knock on the door of every nation. If that nation answered the call, then it became blessed. However, if it rejected the offer, then that nation became a shambles.
In other words, the self evident and unalienable truths declared by our Founding Fathers will never be found in China, in India, in Argentina, or in Chile. No, they reduce to ancient Greece.

[Ambassador]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

Nice map Diablo. Some surprises there. Germany and the UK ranked below Ireland?? Wow, that's a turnaround, eh?

That particular fact make me wonder... How is it that Germany or the UK ranks below anybody for any reason? Well, maybe this.

A good society that has money may be willing to invite poorer people to immigrate so as to share in the fruits of the good society that they have built. IOW, perhaps the best societies have an underclass not because of some sort of failure of their social structure, but because rather the opposite. Having achieved enough for themselves plus a surplus, they accept immigration as a way of doing the right thing to help people in need.

See my reply at the top of this page.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by Ambassador

See my reply at the top of this page.

Yeah I read it, very good read Amb.

My point is the degree of social responsibility a society takes upon itself will reflect on the bottom line, however the bottom line of course is not necessarily a comprehensive barometer. Best example - Monaco is certainly the richest nation on earth strictly in terms of cash on hand. But they are rather poor in spirit - relatively worthless in the eyes of most residents of this blue ball. Sure they are fabulous playboys. But they obviously aren't too overburdened with social responsibility.

[Mister Nifty]

Originally Posted by LAnative10

Or the crap that you so liberally throw out is pure racism, bigotry, and without any hard data.

Are you scared of quantifiable data or something?

Racism? As we were all born equal as Americans knowing in our collective conscience the same self evident and unalienable truths, that term is a myth. It will one day be viewed as such. Philosophy was my minor in college while I tended to concentrate on courses in the philosophy of science specifically. So, I know a lot about truth engines. The United States is less racist than the nation of India. Afterall, our Abraham Lincoln saved our Union while Gandhi couldn't keep that nation from splitting up into Hindu and Muslim sections.
Communism in Asia would go into poor villages to cut the heads off of young men to display them for all to see atop sticks poked into the ground. Why? To scare other villagers towards that which was best for them in regards to their happiness. I guess you think this has virtue.
In other words, Eastern Civilization sucks. There is nothing there to find in regards to social contract theory. In comparison, Latin America sucks even worse.
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