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Typical one sided propaganda, you got it right. Russian Federation refuses to allow public access to NKVD/KGB archives, 80 years old archives threaten entire Russian mythology, I bet there is a lot of interesting info on NKVD anti guerilla actions in Western Ukraine. Seriously comrade Erasure, Russian history is soaked in blood and bestiality, a Russian nazi apologist like yourself scolding Bandera is about the same as a serial killer scolding a boy scout over a squashed fly.
And while it's true that "Russian history is soaked with blood," it's first of all Russian blood, along with anybody else's, so enough of your nonsense.
P.S. As for you hero Bandera "being sent to concentration camp" - he was a collaborationist used by Germans and properly disposed of, when no longer needed. As any garbage.
"In the early months of World War II he cooperated with Nazi Germany, but when he declared a Ukrainian independent state, he was arrested on 15 September 1941 and later imprisoned in the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.[1] In 1944, with Germany rapidly losing its supremacy in the war before the advancing Allies, Bandera was released, in the hope that he would deter the advancing Soviet forces."
Bestiality - that's Lvov, Western Ukraine circa 1941 and its nationalists.
Yup, 2 years worth of the Soviet bestialities in 1939-1941 leaving hundred thousand Ukrainians + dead, 1 million + deported to Siberia and culminating in the prison massacres of 1941 by the withdrawing soviet forces.And there were polish victims, notably extermination of tens of thousands of the polish pows by NKVD death squads. And after that was savage anti guerilla campaign of 1945-1954. Originally, Western Ukrainians were neutral or outright friendly towards Russia considering their tumultuous relationships with Poles. But Soviet rule made it clear that, just like Poles, Soviets want Ukrainians to be incorporated in the collective while more than willing to kill in the name of that. Russian collective psyche cannot forgive Western Ukrainian resistance to the Russian Borg, an act of resistance is criminal and dehumanizing in itself, Russians collective psyche adopted sorta a racial theory "explaining" Western Ukraine, it focuses multiple Russian manias as no other sociological lens.
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P.S. As for you hero Bandera "being sent to concentration camp" - he was a collaborationist used by Germans and properly disposed of, when no longer needed. As any garbage.
Considering that massive soviet collaboration with Nazi Germany made WW2 possible, I find that blaming inconsequential alliance of Bandera with Germany in the face of the Soviet onslaught to be insanely hypocritical. Yes, Bandera had tough alliance choices between two murderous regimes in 1944. He picked a weaker side to fight the winning side, that is simple logic of struggle. Soviet regime was not a "lesser" evil by any measure, so please.
Yup, 2 years worth of the Soviet bestialities in 1939-1941 leaving hundred thousand Ukrainians + dead, 1 million + deported to Siberia and culminating in the prison massacres of 1941 by the withdrawing soviet forces.And there were polish victims, notably extermination of tens of thousands of the polish pows by NKVD death squads. And after that was savage anti guerilla campaign of 1945-1954. Originally, Western Ukrainians were neutral or outright friendly towards Russia considering their tumultuous relationships with Poles. But Soviet rule made it clear that, just like Poles, Soviets want Ukrainians to be incorporated in the collective while more than willing to kill in the name of that. Russian collective psyche cannot forgive Western Ukrainian resistance to the Russian Borg, an act of resistance is criminal and dehumanizing in itself, Russians collective psyche adopted sorta a racial theory "explaining" Western Ukraine, it focuses multiple Russian manias as no other sociological lens.
Yet another attempt of yours to reshuffle all cards and to wiggle out of this very sensitive subject of Ukrainian nationalism, collaborating with Nazi forces and committing atrocities in the name of this very nationalism. See, what you are trying to ascribe to Russians ( i.e. regurgitated by you "Russian nationalism"(that you are trying constantly to switch the subject to,) is really not there. Whenever Russians go on the killing spree, their main zeal is the state security, not some "racial theories," "ethnic purity" or "Russia for Russians" slogans. Whichever ethnic group they perceive as a threat to their state security for the moment being, that's the one that's going to suffer as a POTENTIAL force, when found in concentrated numbers, whereas the single representatives of this particular group, scattered elsewhere will not be targeted.
That is not to say that PART of Russians are not nationalist, "white supremacists" and all. But this is a totally different question, since this bottom line was never promoted at a state level, with the rare exceptions of Tzarist times. But it's clearly not a case in Ukraine.
Ukrainian nationalism is as ugly as it gets, and the link to pictures that I posted earlier attests to that.
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Considering that massive soviet collaboration with Nazi Germany made WW2 possible, I find that blaming inconsequential alliance of Bandera with Germany in the face of the Soviet onslaught to be insanely hypocritical. Yes, Bandera had tough alliance choices between two murderous regimes in 1944. He picked a weaker side to fight the winning side, that is simple logic of struggle. Soviet regime was not a "lesser" evil by any measure, so please.
More nonsense of yours as usual, and yet another attempt to justify the willing collaborators of Hitler's regime. "Soviet collaboration with Nazi Germany" was nothing else but an attempt to buy the time, since their original attempt to form an alliance with France-England has been declined, and Munich Agreement indeed took place BEFORE Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
It pays to learn history, instead of trying to tweak it to ones' own liking.
Yet another attempt of yours to reshuffle all cards and to wiggle out of this very sensitive subject of Ukrainian nationalism, collaborating with Nazi forces and committing atrocities in the name of this very nationalism. See, what you are trying to ascribe to Russians ( i.e. regurgitated by you "Russian nationalism"(that you are trying constantly to switch the subject to,) is really not there. Whenever Russians go on the killing spree, their main zeal is the state security, not some "racial theories," "ethnic purity" or "Russia for Russians" slogans. Whichever ethnic group they perceive as a threat to their state security for the moment being, that's the one that's going to suffer as a POTENTIAL force, when found in concentrated numbers, whereas the single representatives of this particular group, scattered elsewhere will not be targeted.
That is not to say that PART of Russians are not nationalist, "white supremacists" and all. But this is a totally different question, since this bottom line was never promoted at a state level, with the rare exceptions of Tzarist times. But it's clearly not a case in Ukraine.
Ukrainian nationalism is as ugly as it gets, and the link to pictures that I posted earlier attests to that.
Since we were talking Western Ukraine and Soviet atrocities there after USSR assisting nazi Germany in dismembering Poland in 1939, your Orwellian attempts at demonization Ukrainian nationalist resistance are just that. The fact is that soviet regime went on the murderous spree in the Western Ukraine after 1939, after starving Eastern Ukraine into docile submission 6 years earlier. Soviet crimes against humanity exceeded those of the Nazis. There is nothing sensitive about Ukrainian resistance using whatever allies available at the time to fight the murderous soviet beast. Soviet and nazi regimes should have been tried together in Nuremberg.
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More nonsense of yours as usual, and yet another attempt to justify the willing collaborators of Hitler's regime. "Soviet collaboration with Nazi Germany" was nothing else but an attempt to buy the time, since their original attempt to form an alliance with France-England has been declined, and Munich Agreement indeed took place BEFORE Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
It pays to learn history, instead of trying to tweak it to ones' own liking.
It is a typical insane Russian rationalization of the Soviet -Nazi collaboration that brought us WW2. Insanity of that particular rationalization is obvious to anyone except Russians. There would not be no ww2 as we know it without Soviets assisting Nazis in 1939-40. Not only USSR asisted Nazis militarily in wiping out Poland in the East thus securing German rear so the Nazis could concentrate their forces on the Western front against France and Brittain, soviets raw materials made the war on the western front and bombing of Brittain possible. Stalin took great care so ww1 scenario of the German defeat would not repeat itself in 1940, but watching Germans, French and Brits bleeding each other and then entering the war to settle European affairs on the Soviet terms didnt pan out. France was too weak, German military too strong, so Stalin outfoxed himself by assisting and building up an imaginary German underdog.
Yup, 2 years worth of the Soviet bestialities in 1939-1941 leaving hundred thousand Ukrainians + dead, 1 million + deported to Siberia and culminating in the prison massacres of 1941 by the withdrawing soviet forces.And there were polish victims, notably extermination of tens of thousands of the polish pows by NKVD death squads. And after that was savage anti guerilla campaign of 1945-1954. Originally, Western Ukrainians were neutral or outright friendly towards Russia considering their tumultuous relationships with Poles. But Soviet rule made it clear that, just like Poles, Soviets want Ukrainians to be incorporated in the collective while more than willing to kill in the name of that. Russian collective psyche cannot forgive Western Ukrainian resistance to the Russian Borg, an act of resistance is criminal and dehumanizing in itself, Russians collective psyche adopted sorta a racial theory "explaining" Western Ukraine, it focuses multiple Russian manias as no other sociological lens.
Considering that massive soviet collaboration with Nazi Germany made WW2 possible, I find that blaming inconsequential alliance of Bandera with Germany in the face of the Soviet onslaught to be insanely hypocritical. Yes, Bandera had tough alliance choices between two murderous regimes in 1944. He picked a weaker side to fight the winning side, that is simple logic of struggle. Soviet regime was not a "lesser" evil by any measure, so please.
Why do you keep mixing "Soviet" and "Russian" all the time? You are all over the place.
There were numerous Ukrainians that fully supported the USSR, many rising into its highest ranks. You seem to love laying the blame on a particular group, Russians, and ignoring any other group that supported and controlled the USSR.
If you need a group to blame for 1939 - 41, blame the Georgians, it was Stalin in absolute control at that time along with Beria.
I guess the Ukr junta is somewhat nervous. Really, who pays their salaries? Washington does. US taxpayers are the only thing keeping that chit show on the stage.
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Why do you keep mixing "Soviet" and "Russian" all the time? You are all over the place.
Remembermee is totally ignorant of the dynamics of that part of the world. Eastern Europe is one of those areas in the world torn by many forces, ethnic, historical, religious just to name a few.
Their biggest problem is their rulers, has been and always will be most likely. What we have is little groups of ruling elite all worried about their turf. There has been all kinds of strife there in the past, neighbor killing neighbor, pogroms, massacres you name it going back a long time. Didn't the Slavic people actually request the Viking lords rule over them because of the bloodletting a long time ago?
When the Soviets were there they had peace for the most part. Yes it was the peace of the gun but well that's all some people understand. Thick skulls require big heavy clubs. With that mentality and an inability of a people to stand together as one you get exactly where? You get ruled by people who don't necessarily have your best interests in mind.
Seems to me that the nations of that region require some larger power to keep them from destroying themselves and one another. The Warsaw Pact served that purpose in the last century. NATO serves that purpose today.
These states have been that biotch of some major power and will continue to be because they cannot govern themselves.
They cannot face the fact that their "oppression" is the result of their inability to stand together against those larger forces. They deserve to be ruled because they cannot rule themselves.
Russia is the latest excuse they use for their terrible behavior.
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