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Old 07-21-2014, 09:49 PM
 
8,726 posts, read 7,410,086 times
Reputation: 12612

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
What is wrong with forced patriotism? Well think about it, a nation of brainwashed people who can't even see reality for what it is, people who think Stalin was a good man, people who think Putin is a good man.

As someone explained to me, Russian patriotism is very different from American patriotism- a lot of Americans love this country and hate the Government.

Russian patriotism essentially means love for the state which is a pretty scary concept for anybody who can think for themselves.
I guess you do not know anyone who attends school in Ukraine; my niece graduated this year, and have a few more still in school, their schools exceed even Russia in the patriotism BS (which by the way is way overstated, no one is stating a pledge of allegiance or anything every morning like in the US) as they desperately try to craft some image of a Ukrainian state.

"As someone explained to me, Russian patriotism is very different from American patriotism- a lot of Americans love this country and hate the Government."

Funny, given the US gov is an elected government, thus the reflection of the people that vote.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
One thing which struck me about Mr. Putin was that he absolutely did not condemn the shooting down of a civilian airliner by 'perpatrators'.
He called it a terrible tragedy.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
Reputation: 1742
System control panel BUK. Can a ordinary man to understand it without training?


http://cs616420.vk.me/v616420962/17d2c/8vRDi-l__cU.jpg
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
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Interestingly, our partners from the United States will give the data from its satellite?

"I was told by one source who had been briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts that some satellite images suggest that the missile battery was under the control of Ukrainian government troops but that their conclusion was not definitive."
Kerry’s Latest Reckless Rush to Judgment | Consortiumnews
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:27 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selena822 View Post
You didn't understand me, I studied in Ukraine, not Russia. And here are the same lessons.
Selena, I'm sure there is a difference.
I've looked right now at this article. I'll try to make a long story short; America can be ruled by money, Russia - can't. Yet that's precisely what took place from the nineties and in the most corrupt manner. So Putin and Co ( who are inseparable part of this corruption) are trying to come up with some "spiritual ideas," ideas of forced patriotism, ( and religion) because their empire glued together by corrupt money can't function too well.
It's another question why Putin is still in charge, ( I DO understand why Russians are voting for him so far,) however I see a lot of them thanking you guys, in Eastern Ukraine now, saying that they are grateful to you because you've reminded them what true patriotism is - the love for your country and culture, the courage to die for it, for your neighbor, without thinking how much it will cost in dollars or economic sanctions.

P.S. Yesterday over 200 Serbs arrived to join your army. Так что встречайте. Apparently they have their own ideas about what's is right and what's wrong in this world as well.

Last edited by erasure; 07-21-2014 at 11:25 PM..
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Donetsk
238 posts, read 198,300 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Re: 'Rebels do not have reason to shoot plane'

But yet it's noted that of course Ukraine had. One cannot consider seeing among their own what they see in their enemy. But that is a natural occurrence in war when there is a lack of empathy or understanding between the warring sides. For sure the perspective gets narrower and narrower.
Well I was writing that post listening to charming sounds of Grad shelling and this affected my mood a lot. I explained why do I think that "of course they have", I have to admit that I express my antipathy to Ukrainian Government more subdued than I would like to in the situation in which I am. I really don't have any reason to like Junta, a year ago I couldn't even imagine that something like this could happen to us. Now when I say "Good bye" to my friends I have no idea if I will see them again and my friends understand it very well, all my plans go to hell, I am afraid that my beautiful city will be damaged, that here will come Nazis. We survived this already, this February, when activists of Maydan came here to capture our city administration- we didn't let them to do it, I hope that this time our guys won't let them take Donets too. We just can't forgive it
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
however I see a lot of them thanking you guys, in Eastern Ukraine now, saying that they are grateful to you because you've reminded them what true patriotism is - the love for your country and culture, the courage to die for it, for your neighbor, without thinking how much it will cost in dollars or economic sanctions.
It's true.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
But no, someone became insane and decided that he can do everything he wants... And the reasons? The idea that the lives of the population were in danger, that the far-right activists come and kill them all as during WWII, was an absurd one.
Yes, it seems absurd. But what do you do if, for example, tomorrow in Voronezh scumbags locked up a few dozen people in the house and set them on fire, as it was in Odessa? Will you also say that it is absurd? Or do you take up arms?
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Helsinki, Finland
5,452 posts, read 11,248,929 times
Reputation: 2411
Wonder how many everyday people in Donetsk and Luhansk are supporting these fanatic armed liberators? Maybe i should ask the mother who lost her child to a stray bullet from a drunk paramilitant rebel on a deadly rampage.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,342,927 times
Reputation: 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
System control panel BUK. Can a ordinary man to understand it without training?


http://cs616420.vk.me/v616420962/17d2c/8vRDi-l__cU.jpg
Apparently not, otherwise the rebels wouldn't have shot down an airliner.
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