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Old 02-27-2022, 12:51 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Then clearly in order to end this territorial dispute, and save the lives of billions of people, following your reasoning, nuclear weapons should be aimed at the Kremlin. Save the many at the expense of the few.

They ARE aimed at Kremlin.

And Kremlin aims them at Washington ( or wherever else it's aimed.)
The question is who will decide to go first and why.


( Not sure what my "reasoning" has to do with it all though.)
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Old 02-27-2022, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,319,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
They ARE aimed at Kremlin.

And Kremlin aims them at Washington ( or wherever else it's aimed.)
The question is who will decide to go first and why.


( Not sure what my "reasoning" has to do with it all though.)
Let me clarify: SHOT at the Kremlin.

Reread your posts back there. You know this war has been lost by Russia and there is no place for Russia in the world community after this. And this became increasingly evident in your posts, as you kept stretching to try and justify the invasion. Desperate people aren't very rational.

Russian soldiers have no reason to fight other than following orders. Ukrainians are fighting for their lives. Don't underestimate that impulse.

Now whether this war will end with negotiations that allow Russia to pretend it won what it wanted, I don't know. But the world knows otherwise and bears witness.

I too can claim many Russian friends. For what that's worth.
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Old 02-27-2022, 01:36 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Let me clarify: SHOT at the Kremlin.

So what's seems to be a problem?


Quote:
Reread your posts back there. You know this war has been lost by Russia and there is no place for Russia in the world community after this. And this became increasingly evident in your posts, as you kept stretching to try and justify the invasion. Desperate people aren't very rational.
I am not "trying to justify."
It IS justified the way I see it.

( You need to re-read my posts I think... )



Quote:
Russian soldiers have no reason to fight other than following orders.
I remember the Germans were saying something similar during the WWII...
"Russians have no reason to follow the commands of their Judeo-Bolsheviks government" or something like that.



Quote:
Ukrainians are fighting for their lives. Don't underestimate that impulse.
It's not "their lives" they are fighting for, but for their ideology.

And I don't underestimate the "impulse" of the indoctrinated people.

That's why the potential consequences of this war worry me big time, in terms of human losses.

I hope they will sit at the negotiation table soon, Russia will take over the South East ( as it should have done seven years ago) and leave the rest for grabs.



Quote:
Now whether this war will end with negotiations that allow Russia to pretend it won what it wanted, I don't know. But the world knows otherwise and bears witness.
Aren't you a bit.. under-qualified to speak for the "world?"


Quote:
I too can claim many Russian friends. For what that's worth.
This very ending makes you feel so knowledgeable, so just, so objective, innit?



I'm glad it does, because now when I think about it, I have very few Russian friends.
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Old 02-27-2022, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,319,117 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So what's seems to be a problem?


I am not "trying to justify."
It IS justified the way I see it.

( You need to re-read my posts I think...


I remember the Germans were saying something similar during the WWII...
"Russians have no reason to follow the commands of their Judeo-Bolsheviks government" or something like that.


It's not "their lives" they are fighting for, but for their ideology.

And I don't underestimate the "impulse" of the indoctrinated people.

That's why the potential consequences of this war worry me big time, in terms of human losses.

I hope they will sit at the negotiation table soon, Russia will take over the South East ( as it should have done seven years ago) and leave the rest for grabs.


Aren't you a bit.. under-qualified to speak for the "world?"


This very ending makes you feel so knowledgeable, so just, so objective, innit?


I'm glad it does, because now when I think about it, I have very few Russian friends.

I don't understand indoctrinated people.
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Old 02-27-2022, 01:57 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I don't understand indoctrinated people.

... unless you realize that you are indoctrinated yourself.
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Old 02-27-2022, 02:34 PM
 
7,324 posts, read 4,118,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
I think part of it is that NATO isn't necessarily keen about taking on the increased risk of having Ukraine as a member - if any member is attacked, the others are bound to defend it. Russia is a nuclear state, and a shooting war with NATO could turn into World War III, which could literally be the war to end all wars.
I agree. We are willfully headed towards a world war.

If the USA is concerned about China's military bases across the Atlantic Ocean, wouldn't it make sense Russia wouldn't want a base directly on their border?

Quote:
U.S. forces in Africa are keeping a watchful eye on China, worried Beijing is getting closer to establishing a network of military and naval bases across the continent.

"We know the Chinese desire a network of bases around the globe," the head of U.S. Africa Command, General Stephen Townsend, told lawmakers Thursday, adding, "My concern is the greatest along the Atlantic coast of Africa."

China established its first military base in on Africa’s east coast, in Doraleh, Djibouti, in 2017, raising concern among U.S. military officials who described the Chinese facility as being “right outside our gates†of the U.S. base at Camp Lemonnier.

"This is the most significant threat from China,†Townsend told members of the Senate Armed Service Committee, saying Beijing wants “something more than a place where they can make port calls and get gas and groceries.â€

"I'm talking about a port where they can rearm with munitions and repair naval vessels," he said. "They're working aggressively to get that."

Townsend's testimony followed similar warnings about Chinese military ambitions from other defense officials.
https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_china-...s/6204929.html

Quote:
Jon Finer, President Biden's principal deputy national security adviser, traveled to Equatorial Guinea in October in an effort to convince President Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo and his son Vice President Teodoro Nguema Obiang Mangue to reject China's proposal, the newspaper reported.

“As part of our diplomacy to address maritime-security issues, we have made clear to Equatorial Guinea that certain potential steps involving [Chinese] activity there would raise national-security concerns,†a senior Biden administration official said, per the Journal.
It's the same as the Cuban Missile Crisis. We put missile in Turkey pointed at the Soviets first. In response Soviet put missiles in Cuba. They did not take the Cuban missiles out until the USA took our missiles out of Turkey.

If China, placed missiles on the Mexico/USA border or opened a port in Mexico, would the USA be upset? You bet!

What is being reported in Poland and not in the USA, is NATO wants Turkey involved. If you look at a map, Turkey is Russia's southern neighbor. We want to widen this conflict with Russia and humiliate Russia.

As the Chinese have said,
Quote:
Instead, China's Assistant Foreign Minister Hua Chunying -- who repeated staid lines about seeking peace through dialogue and said the situation was "not what we would hope to see" -- was quick to point the finger at the US, implying that Washington was a "culprit" for "fanning up flames," referring to US warnings in recent weeks of an imminent invasion.

"China has taken a responsible attitude and persuaded all parties not to escalate tensions or incite war...Those who follow the US' lead in fanning up flames and then shifting the blame onto others are truly irresponsible," she said.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/china...mic/index.html

So China announced yesterday, it was purchasing Russia surplus wheat. China has no natural gas or oil. China and Russia have been building a pipe for Russian gas. Russia will do very well even if their only buyer is China.

Quote:
BEIJING — As Russia wreaks havoc in Ukraine, Moscow has a powerful economic ally to help it resist Western sanctions: China.

Chinese purchases of oil from Russia in December surpassed its purchases from Saudi Arabia. Six days before the military campaign began, Russia announced a yearslong deal to sell 100 million tons of coal to China — a contract worth more than $20 billion. And hours before Russia began bombing Ukraine, China agreed to buy Russian wheat despite concerns about plant diseases.

In a throwback to the 1950s, when Mao Zedong worked closely with Joseph Stalin and then Nikita Khrushchev, China is again drawing close to Russia. As the United States and the European Union have become wary of China, Beijing’s leaders have decided that their best geopolitical prospects lie in marrying their vast industrial might with Russia’s formidable natural resources.

Recent food and energy deals are just the latest signals of China’s economic alignment with Russia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/b...a-ukraine.html

Why are we pressure Russia to China's arms? It makes no sense for us.

Quote:
The idea of a Thucydides Trap, popularized by Harvard political scientist Graham Allison, holds that the danger of war will skyrocket as a surging China overtakes a sagging America. Even Chinese President Xi Jinping has endorsed the concept arguing Washington must make room for Beijing. As tensions between the United States and China escalate, the belief that the fundamental cause of friction is a looming “power transitionâ€â€”the replacement of one hegemon by another—has become canonical.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/24...united-states/

Quote:
The Thucydides Trap: Are the U.S. and China Headed for War?

In 12 of 16 past cases in which a rising power has confronted a ruling power, the result has been bloodshed.

Based on the current trajectory, war between the United States and China in the decades ahead is not just possible, but much more likely than recognized at the moment. Indeed, judging by the historical record, war is more likely than not. Moreover, current underestimations and misapprehensions of the hazards inherent in the U.S.-China relationship contribute greatly to those hazards. A risk associated with Thucydides’s Trap is that business as usual—not just an unexpected, extraordinary event—can trigger large-scale conflict. When a rising power is threatening to displace a ruling power, standard crises that would otherwise be contained, like the assassination of an archduke in 1914, can initiate a cascade of reactions that, in turn, produce outcomes none of the parties would otherwise have chosen.
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...s-trap/406756/

So why are we circling Russia? Why are we pushing them towards China? It doesn't make sense.

Unless the USA deep state/military industrial conflict wants a world war.
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Old 02-27-2022, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,384 posts, read 9,483,835 times
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The Ukrainians are making molotov cocktails, when they should be making IEDs. Molotov cocktails won't do anything to stop Russian armored vehicles.
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Old 02-27-2022, 03:11 PM
 
7,324 posts, read 4,118,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
The Ukrainians are making molotov cocktails, when they should be making IEDs. Molotov cocktails won't do anything to stop Russian armored vehicles.
This is why their government needed to stop their civil war before it came to this point.

Unfortunately, their president was a former actor and comedian with no prior political experience. Basically, the Ukrainian Donald Trump. It's bad enough, but their president has no business experience and no experience negotiating anything. So he's worse than Trump.

I think he missed all the clues that a seasoned politician would have picked up. He seems to lack long term planning skills like training their army to use long range missiles and stocking up on missiles.

My Polish relatives have said that Poland is calling up their high ranking military staff so they can train Ukrainian men in the basics of conflict fighting.

The Ukrainian president is like those people who are surprised by a snowstorm. They run in panic and at the last minute to the supermarket. They find the bread, milk, etc gone from the supermarket shelves and they are scratching their head in shock and disbelief.
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Old 02-27-2022, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,384 posts, read 9,483,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
This is why their government needed to stop their civil war before it came to this point.
:
:
It's not their fault! The only way they could stop it would be to make concessions, which would only invite Putin to do it again, and to take more of their territory. At a certain point, they needed to say "enough". Russia was devouring Ukraine, bite by bite. Now, Putin has decided to eat the whole thing all at once. But Ukraine wasn't the aggressor before, and they aren't the aggressor now, this is all Russia's doing. It's not Ukraine's army in Russia, each time it's been the Russian army, in Ukraine.
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Old 02-27-2022, 03:38 PM
 
2,215 posts, read 1,320,351 times
Reputation: 3378
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
I agree. We are willfully headed towards a world war.

If the USA is concerned about China's military bases across the Atlantic Ocean, wouldn't it make sense Russia wouldn't want a base directly on their border?

[redacted]

So why are we circling Russia? Why are we pushing them towards China? It doesn't make sense.

Unless the USA deep state/military industrial conflict wants a world war.
I think even some of the ordinary Americans are asking this simple question.
It has become a showcase piece:

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/...widget%3DTweet
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