The future of Ukraine (2014, safe, places, people)

[grega94]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

Please, do not act like a 5 y.o., I will not be going in circles over the same propaganda bs and lies russian info troopers deploy here. I will not debate point by point the same bs, I have done that plenty, there is no debate with your kind, you are here to propagandize for the bunker Vlad and second hand Russian Reich. You know that and I know that. There is plenty of information for curious minds. However, keep us in the loop about the latest bs official Russian propagandists come up with, I have heard they go wild and crazy over there. I bet they try to come up with something so sickening and so ridiculous as to finally insult whatever little remains of Russian intelligence and consciousness, if any.

There is no point in debating with Truist, all his sources are official Russian states TV and agrees with them to the fullest. He is a staunch supporter of the ruling United Russia party. At least Erasure has the good sense to recognise that those politicians are a bunch of corrupt liars and cheats who suppress the will of the nation, although she still takes their side in this conflict. I understand those reasons as I have family who live on both sides of the issue and my mom was born in the Donbas and she still has family who lives there. I’m very torn on the issue. On the one hand these past 8 years of so called “diplomacy” lead to no where, and waiting any longer could be considered a crime in and of itself. But on the other hand Putin just made a bad situation worse for both sides. He just legitimised Ukraine’s and the West’s fears and giving them the amo so to speak to fight against Russia. I don’t have an answer how Russia should’ve resolved the issue considering how stubborn both Ukraine and Russia are, but I can say for certain that invading Ukraine in force is not going resolve it, and Russians will soon enough regret this discussion, just as they (and the US) regret invading Afghanistan.

Imagine all the good that Russia could’ve invested in with the money they stockpiled for this war, such a huge waste. Plus many young men will needlessly perish, which Russia is in short supply of, the demographic crisis hasn’t been solved yet in Russia, again making a bad situation worse.

Sorry, Ukraine governing system representatives (Especially the Presidential office) supposed to have followed these exact specifics:

1. Refusal to join NATO
2. Likewise, just can't ever be part of the European Union EU entity
3. Political referendums in Donetsk, Luhansk: https://static.theprint.in/wp-conten...022/02/MAP.jpg
Maybe just give away that relatively small corner of far Southeast Ukraine in worst case scenario to Russia.
Approximately at least 1/3 to 1/2 of Donbass region over there: https://www.plenglish.com/wp-content...ia-donbass.jpg
Ukraine still ultimately saving more than 87% to 99% of entire remaining real territory.
4. Appear even more Pro-Soviet like Belarus, Kazakhstan for one example

Then all of these horrible tragedies could have been completely avoided.

Even with this relevant information, I am still equally Anti-Ukraine conflict quite strong. Just like billions of people worldwide.

That is still no excuse for parts of Russian governing system and army to attack any other place in Ukraine outside of the relatively micro rebel separatist zone(Donetsk, Luhansk 1/3 to 1/2 of Donbass) that wrong.
Why Kyiv, Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Mariupol? No legitimate excuse.

Hopefully, the Ukraine, Russia peace mediating delegations have the first 4 objectives in mind
First three unconditional (1.2.3.!) quite successfully

And maybe even 5. Just replace the current pre-existing Presidential office in Ukraine. No better than C grade service for Zelensky's own era. Almost F to D grade, yet simultaneous close finals among B to A note before the fatally wrong invasion because Ukraine probably did become economically wealthier with them from a bit less poverty into even some middle class moderate middle income status

I am still sad for Ukraine and something that massively horrible was never supposed to have occurred.
I don't know why the number one most fatal war calamity of the 2000's 21st Century was not avoided!?
Even worse for the beginning already than Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria

I really hope it's not too late for Ukraine to completely recover.
West of the Dnieper River still didn't really get bombed yet (Lviv to Odessa) *South and west from Kyiv metropolitan vicinity

Kuwait had a similar issue in 1990-1991 of Operation Desert Storm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
6 months invasion from technically much bigger Iraq, with 1 month 1/2 to two months of immediate explosions related conflict
Kuwait entirely got away from these problems less than two to three decades later.
And even became a strong touristic destination. Even better than before.
Hopfully, Ukraine is going to follow exact parallels of Kuwait into the future..

[rfb]

Originally Posted by Winterfall8324

Again, when you call for an insurgency this is what happens. Russia was targeting military installations, but then NATO/Zelensky told the people to sacrifice themselves and become insurgents.

When civilians start taking up arms, civilians die. And for what? A lie about an unwinnable war? NATO uses the Ukrainians as cannon fodder.

What "insurgency"? Ukraine is defending its country from foreign invaders (Russia). What did Russia expect - that Ukraine was going to welcome them with open arms? If so, the Russian leaders are delusional.

[Turist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKLw0PuIKYs

[DontH8Me]

Originally Posted by rfb

What "insurgency"? Ukraine is defending its country from foreign invaders (Russia). What did Russia expect - that Ukraine was going to welcome them with open arms? If so, the Russian leaders are delusional.

Exactly. And don't you just love the ones who post about how if only Ukraine had acquiesced to Putin's list of demands, then all of this could have been avoided. Typical psychopath behavior - look what you made me do to you.

[Turist]

Originally Posted by rfb

What "insurgency"? Ukraine is defending its country from foreign invaders (Russia). What did Russia expect - that Ukraine was going to welcome them with open arms? If so, the Russian leaders are delusional.

Can I tell you more about open arms?" I hear it all the time here, I hear it all the time on Ukrainian TV (yes, I watch it too), but I have never heard about it from our leaders. I've never heard about it on our TV. Maybe it was on a talk show? Please show me where our leaders are supposedly raving about open arms. please show me.

[TheDentist]

I thought this was an interesting read:

Translation of the alleged analysis of the current situation in Russia by an active FSB analyst
Igor Sushko .com - Racing and Beyond: Translation of the alleged analysis of the current situation in Russia by an active FSB analyst

[rfb]

Originally Posted by Turist

Can I tell you more about open arms?" I hear it all the time here, I hear it all the time on Ukrainian TV (yes, I watch it too), but I have never heard about it from our leaders. I've never heard about it on our TV. Maybe it was on a talk show? Please show me where our leaders are supposedly raving about open arms. please show me.

In this context, it would be to accept the Russian invasion/occupation force without defending themselves and their country.

[Turist]

Originally Posted by rfb

In this context, it would be to accept the Russian invasion/occupation force without defending themselves and their country.

No, no, let's first deal with the fact that someone is delusional. Context is not context.You said in plain text that one of the Russian leaders was raving with open arms. Come on.show me where you've seen it, except on Ukrainian TV and on forums. Show me. Or did you lie? )

[rfb]

Originally Posted by Turist

No, no, let's first deal with the fact that someone is delusional. Context is not context.You said in plain text that one of the Russian leaders was raving with open arms. Come on.show me where you've seen it, except on Ukrainian TV and on forums. Show me. Or did you lie? )

I understand English isn't your first language, so you may not be used to certain colloquialisms that are commonly used. See: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com...with+open+arms